Gas fitters in la la land.

GDB2222

the_gardener_2 said:

Is it a surprise some break the law ?   I know a local builder who installs heating systems him self and gets a gas fitter to commission the work and nice little cash bung.   Illegal of course but a surprise , not me !!!
Sadly he would not disclose the name of said GSR person, I am a bit suspicious. 
I can add up the cost of parts and estimate which makes the issue all the more annoying.   I used to install irrigations systems years ago for the horticultural trade.  Cutting and joining pipe is not exactly skilled work.   Screwing rads and pipe to the wall ,
does require years of training I guess (not).     

It is not breaking the law for an ordinary builder to do all of the work apart from connecting up the boiler to the gas and firing it up. I would suggest that you do this in your cottage, then get a gas safe engineer to commission the boiler. If you can find one to do that. When I fitted a new boiler myself, I found it almost impossible to get a gas safe engineer to commission it. 

jefaz07

GDB2222 said:

the_gardener_2 said:

Is it a surprise some break the law ?   I know a local builder who installs heating systems him self and gets a gas fitter to commission the work and nice little cash bung.   Illegal of course but a surprise , not me !!!
Sadly he would not disclose the name of said GSR person, I am a bit suspicious. 
I can add up the cost of parts and estimate which makes the issue all the more annoying.   I used to install irrigations systems years ago for the horticultural trade.  Cutting and joining pipe is not exactly skilled work.   Screwing rads and pipe to the wall ,
does require years of training I guess (not).     

It is not breaking the law for an ordinary builder to do all of the work apart from connecting up the boiler to the gas and firing it up. I would suggest that you do this in your cottage, then get a gas safe engineer to commission the boiler. If you can find one to do that. When I fitted a new boiler myself, I found it almost impossible to get a gas safe engineer to commission it. 

Wholly incorrect. Why do some people on here post absolute rubbish. 

The Admins need to look into this. It’s bordering on ridiculous. 

A builder can do wet work. But can’t touch the boiler at all...that includes connecting water to the boiler. 

Abs congrats. You can prosecuted for what you have done. 

Below Is lifted from the HSE website;

No, a Gas Safe registered engineer must fit and check a gas appliance. It is not acceptable for a Gas Safe registered engineer to knowingly ‘sign-off’ gas work that has been carried out by a person who is not registered. Where this occurs, both the registered and unregistered installer may face prosecution.

AskAsk

jefaz07 said:

GDB2222 said:

the_gardener_2 said:

Is it a surprise some break the law ?   I know a local builder who installs heating systems him self and gets a gas fitter to commission the work and nice little cash bung.   Illegal of course but a surprise , not me !!!
Sadly he would not disclose the name of said GSR person, I am a bit suspicious. 
I can add up the cost of parts and estimate which makes the issue all the more annoying.   I used to install irrigations systems years ago for the horticultural trade.  Cutting and joining pipe is not exactly skilled work.   Screwing rads and pipe to the wall ,
does require years of training I guess (not).     

It is not breaking the law for an ordinary builder to do all of the work apart from connecting up the boiler to the gas and firing it up. I would suggest that you do this in your cottage, then get a gas safe engineer to commission the boiler. If you can find one to do that. When I fitted a new boiler myself, I found it almost impossible to get a gas safe engineer to commission it. 

Wholly incorrect. Why do some people on here post absolute rubbish. 

The Admins need to look into this. It’s bordering on ridiculous. 

A builder can do wet work. But can’t touch the boiler at all...that includes connecting water to the boiler. 

Abs congrats. You can prosecuted for what you have done. 

Below Is lifted from the HSE website;

No, a Gas Safe registered engineer must fit and check a gas appliance. It is not acceptable for a Gas Safe registered engineer to knowingly ‘sign-off’ gas work that has been carried out by a person who is not registered. Where this occurs, both the registered and unregistered installer may face prosecution.

would explain why he couldn't find a gas safe engineer to connect it up and commision it once he had done it himself, lol 
same thing for electrical work.  some people will do all the wiring themselves then get a qualified electrician to come and connect it up and sign the certificate.  but you would need to find an electrician that would be prepared to do this as this is illegal and he is putting his career at stake.

jefaz07

AskAsk said:

jefaz07 said:

GDB2222 said:

the_gardener_2 said:

Is it a surprise some break the law ?   I know a local builder who installs heating systems him self and gets a gas fitter to commission the work and nice little cash bung.   Illegal of course but a surprise , not me !!!
Sadly he would not disclose the name of said GSR person, I am a bit suspicious. 
I can add up the cost of parts and estimate which makes the issue all the more annoying.   I used to install irrigations systems years ago for the horticultural trade.  Cutting and joining pipe is not exactly skilled work.   Screwing rads and pipe to the wall ,
does require years of training I guess (not).     

It is not breaking the law for an ordinary builder to do all of the work apart from connecting up the boiler to the gas and firing it up. I would suggest that you do this in your cottage, then get a gas safe engineer to commission the boiler. If you can find one to do that. When I fitted a new boiler myself, I found it almost impossible to get a gas safe engineer to commission it. 

Wholly incorrect. Why do some people on here post absolute rubbish. 

The Admins need to look into this. It’s bordering on ridiculous. 

A builder can do wet work. But can’t touch the boiler at all...that includes connecting water to the boiler. 

Abs congrats. You can prosecuted for what you have done. 

Below Is lifted from the HSE website;

No, a Gas Safe registered engineer must fit and check a gas appliance. It is not acceptable for a Gas Safe registered engineer to knowingly ‘sign-off’ gas work that has been carried out by a person who is not registered. Where this occurs, both the registered and unregistered installer may face prosecution.

would explain why he couldn't find a gas safe engineer to connect it up and commision it once he had done it himself, lol 
same thing for electrical work.  some people will do all the wiring themselves then get a qualified electrician to come and connect it up and sign the certificate.  but you would need to find an electrician that would be prepared to do this as this is illegal and he is putting his career at stake.

I get it’s a money saving website. But allowing illegal practices to be recommended is ridiculous. We might as well advocate dealing a little bit weed to get some extra. 

I’m so defensive of this because one day, when it goes wrong someone has to clean up the mess.
One of the jobs I did (and still do management calls on) was the emergency engineer. The 0800 freephone number. 

Was about this time last year I had to attend a property, with a 22 year old engineer where there was 2 fatalities. Still lying in their bed while we had to do what was necessary. Not a good job for someone so young. And that’s not the only fatality we have had on the network due to badly installed/maintained gas appliances. 

CO and Natural Gas doesn’t stop at the threshold of your property, it goes where ever it can, again I’ve seen it go up 3 floors where we have had to attend and kick the door in, drag a lifeless individual outside and administer first aid until the emergency services arrived (randomly I again was manager with the same engineer) 
And quite frankly, these incidents are due to people like the poster who claims to do it himself. There’s always someone who has to clean up the mess. 

I have been in court with the HSE to give evidence of people “trying to save a few quid” 

Please, get a few quotes and pay the money for it done properly. Then you hopefully won’t have me or my chaps forcing entry to your property. 

GDB2222

jefaz07 said:

GDB2222 said:

the_gardener_2 said:

Is it a surprise some break the law ?   I know a local builder who installs heating systems him self and gets a gas fitter to commission the work and nice little cash bung.   Illegal of course but a surprise , not me !!!
Sadly he would not disclose the name of said GSR person, I am a bit suspicious. 
I can add up the cost of parts and estimate which makes the issue all the more annoying.   I used to install irrigations systems years ago for the horticultural trade.  Cutting and joining pipe is not exactly skilled work.   Screwing rads and pipe to the wall ,
does require years of training I guess (not).     

It is not breaking the law for an ordinary builder to do all of the work apart from connecting up the boiler to the gas and firing it up. I would suggest that you do this in your cottage, then get a gas safe engineer to commission the boiler. If you can find one to do that. When I fitted a new boiler myself, I found it almost impossible to get a gas safe engineer to commission it. 

Wholly incorrect. Why do some people on here post absolute rubbish. 

The Admins need to look into this. It’s bordering on ridiculous. 

A builder can do wet work. But can’t touch the boiler at all...that includes connecting water to the boiler. 

Abs congrats. You can prosecuted for what you have done. 

Below Is lifted from the HSE website;

No, a Gas Safe registered engineer must fit and check a gas appliance. It is not acceptable for a Gas Safe registered engineer to knowingly ‘sign-off’ gas work that has been carried out by a person who is not registered. Where this occurs, both the registered and unregistered installer may face prosecution.

I suppose that you can quote the part of the Gas Safety Installation and Use Regulations 1998 that supports your contention?

pelirocco

We had a new combination boiler just over a year ago and that was £3200, from British gas ,they were the same price as the other quote  we had ,but could fit it 2 days later  .

DiddyDavies

GDB2222 said:

jefaz07 said:

GDB2222 said:

the_gardener_2 said:

Is it a surprise some break the law ?   I know a local builder who installs heating systems him self and gets a gas fitter to commission the work and nice little cash bung.   Illegal of course but a surprise , not me !!!
Sadly he would not disclose the name of said GSR person, I am a bit suspicious. 
I can add up the cost of parts and estimate which makes the issue all the more annoying.   I used to install irrigations systems years ago for the horticultural trade.  Cutting and joining pipe is not exactly skilled work.   Screwing rads and pipe to the wall ,
does require years of training I guess (not).     

It is not breaking the law for an ordinary builder to do all of the work apart from connecting up the boiler to the gas and firing it up. I would suggest that you do this in your cottage, then get a gas safe engineer to commission the boiler. If you can find one to do that. When I fitted a new boiler myself, I found it almost impossible to get a gas safe engineer to commission it. 

Wholly incorrect. Why do some people on here post absolute rubbish. 

The Admins need to look into this. It’s bordering on ridiculous. 

A builder can do wet work. But can’t touch the boiler at all...that includes connecting water to the boiler. 

Abs congrats. You can prosecuted for what you have done. 

Below Is lifted from the HSE website;

No, a Gas Safe registered engineer must fit and check a gas appliance. It is not acceptable for a Gas Safe registered engineer to knowingly ‘sign-off’ gas work that has been carried out by a person who is not registered. Where this occurs, both the registered and unregistered installer may face prosecution.

I suppose that you can quote the part of the Gas Safety Installation and Use Regulations 1998 that supports your contention?

Surely this would cover it:

Qualification and supervision

3.—(1) No person shall carry out any work in relation to a gas fitting or gas storage vessel unless he is competent to do so.

(2) The employer of any person carrying out such work for that employer, every other employer and self-employed person who has control to any extent of such work and every employer and self-employed person who has required such work to be carried out at any place of work under his control shall ensure that paragraph (1) above is complied with in relation to such work.

(3) Without prejudice to the generality of paragraphs (1) and (2) above and subject to paragraph (4) below, no employer shall allow any of his employees to carry out any work in relation to a gas fitting or service pipework and no self-employed person shall carry out any such work, unless the employer or self-employed person, as the case may be, is a member of a class of persons approved for the time being by the Health and Safety Executive for the purposes of this paragraph.

"Gas fitting or service pipework" so no, an "ordinary builder" can't do everything apart from connecting up the boiler. They can't do anything relating to the gas side of it. The builder can run in the water pipes but can't have anything to do with the gas pipes or boiler.

GDB2222

DiddyDavies said:

GDB2222 said:

jefaz07 said:

GDB2222 said:

the_gardener_2 said:

Is it a surprise some break the law ?   I know a local builder who installs heating systems him self and gets a gas fitter to commission the work and nice little cash bung.   Illegal of course but a surprise , not me !!!
Sadly he would not disclose the name of said GSR person, I am a bit suspicious. 
I can add up the cost of parts and estimate which makes the issue all the more annoying.   I used to install irrigations systems years ago for the horticultural trade.  Cutting and joining pipe is not exactly skilled work.   Screwing rads and pipe to the wall ,
does require years of training I guess (not).     

It is not breaking the law for an ordinary builder to do all of the work apart from connecting up the boiler to the gas and firing it up. I would suggest that you do this in your cottage, then get a gas safe engineer to commission the boiler. If you can find one to do that. When I fitted a new boiler myself, I found it almost impossible to get a gas safe engineer to commission it. 

Wholly incorrect. Why do some people on here post absolute rubbish. 

The Admins need to look into this. It’s bordering on ridiculous. 

A builder can do wet work. But can’t touch the boiler at all...that includes connecting water to the boiler. 

Abs congrats. You can prosecuted for what you have done. 

Below Is lifted from the HSE website;

No, a Gas Safe registered engineer must fit and check a gas appliance. It is not acceptable for a Gas Safe registered engineer to knowingly ‘sign-off’ gas work that has been carried out by a person who is not registered. Where this occurs, both the registered and unregistered installer may face prosecution.

I suppose that you can quote the part of the Gas Safety Installation and Use Regulations 1998 that supports your contention?

Surely this would cover it:

Qualification and supervision

3.—(1) No person shall carry out any work in relation to a gas fitting or gas storage vessel unless he is competent to do so.

(2) The employer of any person carrying out such work for that employer, every other employer and self-employed person who has control to any extent of such work and every employer and self-employed person who has required such work to be carried out at any place of work under his control shall ensure that paragraph (1) above is complied with in relation to such work.

(3) Without prejudice to the generality of paragraphs (1) and (2) above and subject to paragraph (4) below, no employer shall allow any of his employees to carry out any work in relation to a gas fitting or service pipework and no self-employed person shall carry out any such work, unless the employer or self-employed person, as the case may be, is a member of a class of persons approved for the time being by the Health and Safety Executive for the purposes of this paragraph.

"Gas fitting or service pipework" so no, an "ordinary builder" can't do everything apart from connecting up the boiler. They can't do anything relating to the gas side of it. The builder can run in the water pipes but can't have anything to do with the gas pipes or boiler.

I read that, but it makes no sense in practice. I regularly clean our gas hob. If you have one, you probably do too. I remove the burners and pan supports, and I clean them. A literal reading of that regulation would mean that cleaning your gas hob is illegal. Clearly, some work on gas appliances is allowed, provided the person is competent.

I entirely agree that the builder can't do anything on the gas side. I thought I said that?  However, the idea that he can run the water pipes to the boiler but not attach them seems a bit far-fetched. Indeed, you seem to be agreeing with me on that. 

DiddyDavies

GDB2222 said:

I read that, but it makes no sense in practice. I regularly clean our gas hob. If you have one, you probably do too. I remove the burners and pan supports, and I clean them. A literal reading of that regulation would mean that cleaning your gas hob is illegal. Clearly, some work on gas appliances is allowed, provided the person is competent.

No, it doesn't mean that as it clearly refers to workers and employees and if you are working on your own equipment in your own property, you are not a worker (this doesn't apply to properties that you rent out to others).
In fact, as a private individual, provided that you are competent, then legally there is nothing to stop you fitting your own boiler or other gas appliance.
I'm not saying that it's sensible, simply that not being gas-safe registered in itself doesn't mean that you can't do DIY gas work.

ComicGeek

DiddyDavies said:

GDB2222 said:

I read that, but it makes no sense in practice. I regularly clean our gas hob. If you have one, you probably do too. I remove the burners and pan supports, and I clean them. A literal reading of that regulation would mean that cleaning your gas hob is illegal. Clearly, some work on gas appliances is allowed, provided the person is competent.

No, it doesn't mean that as it clearly refers to workers and employees and if you are working on your own equipment in your own property, you are not a worker (this doesn't apply to properties that you rent out to others).
In fact, as a private individual, provided that you are competent, then legally there is nothing to stop you fitting your own boiler or other gas appliance.
I'm not saying that it's sensible, simply that not being gas-safe registered in itself doesn't mean that you can't do DIY gas work.

You need to look up and consider the definition of 'competent' - in the HSE's Approved Code of Practice and guidance on the Gas Safety (Installation and Use) Regulations 1998, it is very clear that the level of competence needed is very high, and requires full training and experience. It is very specific that it does not allow DIY gas work.