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Walton Wilkins Premier Parking Logistics, Court order come through
borrell1875
Posts: 9 Forumite
I received a court order on the 20/11/2020 for a car parking notice..
I was issued with a car parking charge notice on 10/01/2020. I did not receive this until 25/01/2020 through the post, although on the letter the issue date is 21/01/2020. I challenge that I did not receive the invoice within 14 days of the incident.
I believe this to be unfair. I am not liable to pay for this because:
There was insufficient signage in the car park. I have attached pictures to prove this. At night time, it is impossible to see signs that are on the far buildings away from the car park space that my car was in, as well as any markings on the floor. The signage is not clear and obvious especially if you park and walk to away from the building that I was alleged to have breached terms at. Therefore if you walk to the right of the photograph, you clearly do not see any signs at all. you can see this in the pictures attached and google earth.
Secondly, there was no sign at the car park entrance, as shown in the pictures attached.
Thirdly, on the letter it said the incident time was 20:33 but the photographs suggests this was at 20:29-20:30. There is no evidence that car was parked there during 20:33.
Fourthly, it says the car was parked on ADDRESS 1. There is NO access from the car park in the picture to ADDRESS 1, but you can access the car park space in the picture from ADDRESS 2 only, therefore surely this does not make the private car park address legal. Therefore it is clear the letter sent to me is incorrect. The photos attached are from the day I received the PCN on 25/01/20.
I appealed to the IAS who responded:
You were issued with a parking charge notice for NON PATRON PARKING.
This is private land and the terms and conditions state that parking is permitted for: PATRONS ONLY WHILST THEY ARE USING THE PREMISES AND WHILST THE PREMISES ARE OPEN.
The Inspector was unable to verify you being a patron of the premises at the time the charge was issued. You had no authority to park on this private land at the time the charge was issued.
There is signage all around the car park especially in the area you parked, the bay is also marked nails, so obviously the bay is for nails customers as stated on signage. We do not have to put signs at the entrance as this is private land and we are not inviting unauthorised drivers to park here.
The private land belongs to premises located on Harborne Park Road therefore this land is at the rear of the premises.
The vehicle was observed for 5 minutes on the private land.
You did not comply with the terms and conditions as you were not identified as being a patron of the premises at the time the charge was issued, you parked on private land near to signs displaying clear terms and conditions.
My response which was ignored:
Firstly, is there any evidence that the keeper of the vehicle parked the car in the bay? If there is evidence, could this be provided.
The photographs taken of (removed by forum team) at the alleged time, does not show ANY car parking notices CLEARLY in the picture. Therefore how could any driver parking in this car park make an informed decision unless specifically walking ONE way to the buildings, despite their being multiple exits from this car park on foot.
Secondly, on the IPC website theipc.info, which PPL; who issued the keeper of the vehicle with PCN with, are a registered member of, it clearly states that there should be a standard form of entrance sign. It is clear there is a practical place to have this as shown in the photographs attached. Therefore this is clearly unfair. Point A states they should be sufficient in number and CLEARLY VISIBLE. At night time, walking in a specific direction away from the highlighted buildings, does not show that this is clearly visible. Point C does not identify who as specifically "the Creditor" on the parking sign attached by PPL that I have just received.
Although PPL is not a member of the BPA.. I think it is important to note that the vehicle (removed by Forum Team) was by admittance of PPL, only parked in the space for "5 minutes". If a grace period, which the BPA organisations recognise, was given, then this would not have exceeded the 10 minutes grace period. As all car parks belonging to the BPA adhere to this ruling, including private land, it should be transparent across all organisations.
Any help how to put a case together for court? I can provided the pictures if needed, but they were clearly taken on someone's mobile phone too and not by a proper camera!
I was issued with a car parking charge notice on 10/01/2020. I did not receive this until 25/01/2020 through the post, although on the letter the issue date is 21/01/2020. I challenge that I did not receive the invoice within 14 days of the incident.
I believe this to be unfair. I am not liable to pay for this because:
There was insufficient signage in the car park. I have attached pictures to prove this. At night time, it is impossible to see signs that are on the far buildings away from the car park space that my car was in, as well as any markings on the floor. The signage is not clear and obvious especially if you park and walk to away from the building that I was alleged to have breached terms at. Therefore if you walk to the right of the photograph, you clearly do not see any signs at all. you can see this in the pictures attached and google earth.
Secondly, there was no sign at the car park entrance, as shown in the pictures attached.
Thirdly, on the letter it said the incident time was 20:33 but the photographs suggests this was at 20:29-20:30. There is no evidence that car was parked there during 20:33.
Fourthly, it says the car was parked on ADDRESS 1. There is NO access from the car park in the picture to ADDRESS 1, but you can access the car park space in the picture from ADDRESS 2 only, therefore surely this does not make the private car park address legal. Therefore it is clear the letter sent to me is incorrect. The photos attached are from the day I received the PCN on 25/01/20.
I appealed to the IAS who responded:
You were issued with a parking charge notice for NON PATRON PARKING.
This is private land and the terms and conditions state that parking is permitted for: PATRONS ONLY WHILST THEY ARE USING THE PREMISES AND WHILST THE PREMISES ARE OPEN.
The Inspector was unable to verify you being a patron of the premises at the time the charge was issued. You had no authority to park on this private land at the time the charge was issued.
There is signage all around the car park especially in the area you parked, the bay is also marked nails, so obviously the bay is for nails customers as stated on signage. We do not have to put signs at the entrance as this is private land and we are not inviting unauthorised drivers to park here.
The private land belongs to premises located on Harborne Park Road therefore this land is at the rear of the premises.
The vehicle was observed for 5 minutes on the private land.
You did not comply with the terms and conditions as you were not identified as being a patron of the premises at the time the charge was issued, you parked on private land near to signs displaying clear terms and conditions.
My response which was ignored:
Firstly, is there any evidence that the keeper of the vehicle parked the car in the bay? If there is evidence, could this be provided.
The photographs taken of (removed by forum team) at the alleged time, does not show ANY car parking notices CLEARLY in the picture. Therefore how could any driver parking in this car park make an informed decision unless specifically walking ONE way to the buildings, despite their being multiple exits from this car park on foot.
Secondly, on the IPC website theipc.info, which PPL; who issued the keeper of the vehicle with PCN with, are a registered member of, it clearly states that there should be a standard form of entrance sign. It is clear there is a practical place to have this as shown in the photographs attached. Therefore this is clearly unfair. Point A states they should be sufficient in number and CLEARLY VISIBLE. At night time, walking in a specific direction away from the highlighted buildings, does not show that this is clearly visible. Point C does not identify who as specifically "the Creditor" on the parking sign attached by PPL that I have just received.
Although PPL is not a member of the BPA.. I think it is important to note that the vehicle (removed by Forum Team) was by admittance of PPL, only parked in the space for "5 minutes". If a grace period, which the BPA organisations recognise, was given, then this would not have exceeded the 10 minutes grace period. As all car parks belonging to the BPA adhere to this ruling, including private land, it should be transparent across all organisations.
Any help how to put a case together for court? I can provided the pictures if needed, but they were clearly taken on someone's mobile phone too and not by a proper camera!
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Comments
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Read the newbies FAQ sticky thread near the top of the forum
Use the coupon mad defence template
No evidence is emailed to the ccbcaq email address with your Defence , only your defence is emailed , plus afterwards your DQ is emailed too
Read other recent WW PPL threads and check what is said in those , there are several of them
Email a SAR to the DPO at PPL attaching a copy of the claim form as proof of I D under the GDPR law if not done already
Post the issue date from the claim form below , plus the date your AOS was received by the CCBC by logging in and checking1 -
I am going to guess that you have actually received a County Court Claim Form.borrell1875 said:I received a court order on the 20/11/2020 for a car parking notice.
See those big letters across the top - Claim Form. Nothing there about 'court order', is there?
As Redx suggests, tell us the Issue Date on your County Court Claim Form.2 -
Issue date: 20/11/2020
Received date: 24/11/2020
I have already submitted the defence part with 28 days to build and submit my defence for the CO.1 -
AOS received 30/11/20201
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And sorry it does say Claim Form on this...0
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borrell1875 said:I have already submitted the defence part with 28 days to build and submit my defence for the CO.
I don't understand this. Please try and clarify.
Are you saying that you have filed an Acknowledgment of Service and have therefore extended the time available to file a Defence to 28 days?
"CO" - what's that?
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Please explain what you mean. You only get one chance at submitting a defence, and it is a very bad idea to put anything in the defence dialogue box when you submit the AoS. I hope you left it blank.borrell1875 said:Issue date: 20/11/2020
Received date: 24/11/2020
I have already submitted the defence part with 28 days to build and submit my defence for the CO.
What do you mean by CO?
Please also confirm the timeline as you said a PCN was issued on 10/1/20 but the letter issue date was the 21st.
They can't both be the issue date.
If the 10th was the date of the alleged event, no NTD was left on the windscreen, and the NTK was dated the 21st, then it will be deemed to have arrived on the 23rd, which is day 13. Unless you can prove the NTK did not arrive until the 25th you will have a job convincing a judge it arrived too later for keeper liability to apply.I married my cousin. I had to...I don't have a sister.
All my screwdrivers are cordless."You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks2 -
You have left a VRM visible in your first post. If it is yours I suggest you redact it. As you are a new poster, you will have to ask a board guide (Savvy or Soolin) to do it for you.1
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PCN incident date: 10/1/20
Issue date: 21/01/20
Received:25/01/20
CO: by this I meant claim form.
I have not filled in any part of the defence for the acknowledgement of service I left this blank.0 -
I see the Issue Date on your County Court Claim Form is 20th November 2020.
Have I got that right?
Upon what date did you file an Acknowledgment of Service?
Your MCOL Claim History will have the definitive answer to that.
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