Phones 4 U/ Vodafone Default

AMB1994

Hello,

I am looking for some advice about a default on my credit report. 
Some background, in 2014 I took out a phone contract with vodafone through phones 4 U, I took the phone home and realised in the first day that the vodafone signal at my home was terrible, i had a 14 days grace period in which to return the phone so i decided to send the phone back and look for a contract with another network. Literally a couple of days after I sent the phone back, Phones 4 U went into administration. I didnt hear anything back about the phone contract I had taken out and assumed that the contract had been cancelled. I started getting letters from vodafone saying that i owed them £181, I called them and explained what had happened, how i had sent the phone back and stopped receiving the letters. Flash forward and i have checked my credit file and saw that I had a default placed against me in September 2015 from vodafone for an account that has been passed on to Lowell debt collectors. I got in contact with Vodafone online chat and explained the situation, they said that they never received a disconnection request from phones 4 u and that i would have to get hold of phones 4 u and get them to send vodafone an email confirming that i returned the phone before they can remove the default and clear the balance on the account. I cant get hold of phones 4 u as they are no longer operating and vodafone gave me a contact number they suggested i try but the line is just a dead line. Vodafone said there is nothing they can do about it unless they hear from phones 4 u. I dont know what i can do about this as i cant get hold of phones 4 u, I don't really understand what the £181 is for anyway and why they set the default as September 2015 when i sent the phone back in 2014. 
I just want the default removed.

Yahoo_Mail

Unfortunately, I don't see you getting the default removed as you really needed to get phones4u to cancel the contract.  Since they no longer exist that won't happen.

Vodafone do not appear to be in the wrong here, they have no way of knowing whether the phone was sent back or not.  And I'm assuming you actually had the right to cancel the contract as you did, you may not have.

If you don't know what the £181 is for, ask Vodafone.   As far as them defaulting you a year later I wouldn't expect it any earlier than 3 months after you stopped paying, more realistically 6 months and a year isn't exactly unreasonable.

It'll only be there until Sep next year either way, so I'd just put it behind you and move on, there's little you can do about it now.

AMB1994

Surely vodafone will be able to see that the phone was never used, the sim never made any active calls after the date i sent it back? .. I didn't stop paying as I never paid anything, i didnt use the contract or the phone for longer than a day? 

sourcrates

You need to escalate this to a formal written complaint, phones 4u may have sold you the contract, but the handsets were provided by the networks, as the former is now defunct, you can only deal with the latter.
Due to the passage of time, further escalation to ombudsman services may not be possible, and as already stated, the default will disappear next year anyway, 
Why are you only dealing with this now, after 5 years ?

AMB1994

I didn't realise I had been given a default, as I never received any more letters I assumed the contract had been cancelled as requested. Only recently I checked my credit file and saw the default. As far as I was concerned the phone was sent back in the 14 day allowed period and the contract cancelled. 

Yahoo_Mail

AMB1994 said:

Surely vodafone will be able to see that the phone was never used, the sim never made any active calls after the date i sent it back? .. I didn't stop paying as I never paid anything, i didnt use the contract or the phone for longer than a day? 

They will be able to see that the SIM wasn't used, they'd have no idea if the phone was used or not, certainly not if it was used on a different network.

kaMelo

Yahoo_Mail said:

AMB1994 said:

Surely vodafone will be able to see that the phone was never used, the sim never made any active calls after the date i sent it back? .. I didn't stop paying as I never paid anything, i didnt use the contract or the phone for longer than a day? 

They will be able to see that the SIM wasn't used, they'd have no idea if the phone was used or not, certainly not if it was used on a different network.

The OP states in the opening post the SIM was used.
"I took the phone home and realised in the first day that the vodafone signal at my home was terrible"


To the OP, even if you send the phone back within the cooling off period, if you used the network they will issue a bill for that from the time you first went on the network to the time they received the cancellation.
Without knowing how much the contract was for per month it's difficult to say how it's ended up at £181. However Vodafone's £5 per month late fees added to the outstanding amount it's entirely possible.

What doesn't make sense however is that Vodafone are claiming not to have received a cancellation notice.  Without a phone return and cancellation of the contract, you would be responsible for the entire contract amount which would presumably be for far more than £181. This would imply to me that they actually did receive the phone back and cancel the contract and the £181 are charges for time on the network plus other unknown charges (late fees, debt collection etc)

Whilst Vodafone's network was as robust as ever, the administration and customer services side of things however in that time period was nothing short of shambolic. The changeover of software caused no end of problems for them and trying to get anything fixed felt like you were on the hamster wheel, going nowhere whilst on hold to the Vodafone no-helpline.

I think you will waste a lot of time and energy and get nowhere fast in trying with Vodafone to get the default removed and chances are it will time out before you get it removed anyway.  

AMB1994

kaMelo said:

Yahoo_Mail said:

AMB1994 said:

Surely vodafone will be able to see that the phone was never used, the sim never made any active calls after the date i sent it back? .. I didn't stop paying as I never paid anything, i didnt use the contract or the phone for longer than a day? 

They will be able to see that the SIM wasn't used, they'd have no idea if the phone was used or not, certainly not if it was used on a different network.

The OP states in the opening post the SIM was used.
"I took the phone home and realised in the first day that the vodafone signal at my home was terrible"


To the OP, even if you send the phone back within the cooling off period, if you used the network they will issue a bill for that from the time you first went on the network to the time they received the cancellation.
Without knowing how much the contract was for per month it's difficult to say how it's ended up at £181. However Vodafone's £5 per month late fees added to the outstanding amount it's entirely possible.

What doesn't make sense however is that Vodafone are claiming not to have received a cancellation notice.  Without a phone return and cancellation of the contract, you would be responsible for the entire contract amount which would presumably be for far more than £181. This would imply to me that they actually did receive the phone back and cancel the contract and the £181 are charges for time on the network plus other unknown charges (late fees, debt collection etc)

Whilst Vodafone's network was as robust as ever, the administration and customer services side of things however in that time period was nothing short of shambolic. The changeover of software caused no end of problems for them and trying to get anything fixed felt like you were on the hamster wheel, going nowhere whilst on hold to the Vodafone no-helpline.

I think you will waste a lot of time and energy and get nowhere fast in trying with Vodafone to get the default removed and chances are it will time out before you get it removed anyway.  

Hello was wondering if you had any advice as I have an update on this issue. 
The £181 was for 7 months of phone contract as Vodafone said they didnt receive a cancellation from phones4u. I got in touch with Vodafone saying the I didnt think it was fair they are charging me for 7 months of a phone contract I never used and I would like to have the default removed as I didnt think it was fairly issued. They replied offering me a £40 discount on the £181 balance. I responded saying that the offer of £40 off the balance didnt make sense to me as the issue wasn't that I can't afford to pay the balance but that I dont believe I owe the money and want the default removed. They responded again to offer me £80 off the balance and said that they will consider removing the default but can't confirm or deny whether they will do that unless I pay the balance first. 

This just seems slightly bizarre to me. 'They can't confirm or deny that they will remove the default.' It just seems to me like they are going to get me to pay the balance and then refuse to remove the default once this is done. 

I am just wondering if this is standard procedure, and also if them offering a reduction on the balance is a show of accountability on their part?  Will I have a leg to stand on by asking them to confirm they will remove the default before I pay anything. 

adamp87

Is this over email? The fact they are reducing to me anyway shows they know there’s something up.

You can either escalate the complaint further or respond that you’ll pay the discounted amount if you get written confirmation they’ll remove the default?

kaMelo

AMB1994 said:

kaMelo said:

Yahoo_Mail said:

AMB1994 said:

Surely vodafone will be able to see that the phone was never used, the sim never made any active calls after the date i sent it back? .. I didn't stop paying as I never paid anything, i didnt use the contract or the phone for longer than a day? 

They will be able to see that the SIM wasn't used, they'd have no idea if the phone was used or not, certainly not if it was used on a different network.

The OP states in the opening post the SIM was used.
"I took the phone home and realised in the first day that the vodafone signal at my home was terrible"


To the OP, even if you send the phone back within the cooling off period, if you used the network they will issue a bill for that from the time you first went on the network to the time they received the cancellation.
Without knowing how much the contract was for per month it's difficult to say how it's ended up at £181. However Vodafone's £5 per month late fees added to the outstanding amount it's entirely possible.

What doesn't make sense however is that Vodafone are claiming not to have received a cancellation notice.  Without a phone return and cancellation of the contract, you would be responsible for the entire contract amount which would presumably be for far more than £181. This would imply to me that they actually did receive the phone back and cancel the contract and the £181 are charges for time on the network plus other unknown charges (late fees, debt collection etc)

Whilst Vodafone's network was as robust as ever, the administration and customer services side of things however in that time period was nothing short of shambolic. The changeover of software caused no end of problems for them and trying to get anything fixed felt like you were on the hamster wheel, going nowhere whilst on hold to the Vodafone no-helpline.

I think you will waste a lot of time and energy and get nowhere fast in trying with Vodafone to get the default removed and chances are it will time out before you get it removed anyway.  

Hello was wondering if you had any advice as I have an update on this issue. 
The £181 was for 7 months of phone contract as Vodafone said they didnt receive a cancellation from phones4u. I got in touch with Vodafone saying the I didnt think it was fair they are charging me for 7 months of a phone contract I never used and I would like to have the default removed as I didnt think it was fairly issued. They replied offering me a £40 discount on the £181 balance. I responded saying that the offer of £40 off the balance didnt make sense to me as the issue wasn't that I can't afford to pay the balance but that I dont believe I owe the money and want the default removed. They responded again to offer me £80 off the balance and said that they will consider removing the default but can't confirm or deny whether they will do that unless I pay the balance first. 

This just seems slightly bizarre to me. 'They can't confirm or deny that they will remove the default.' It just seems to me like they are going to get me to pay the balance and then refuse to remove the default once this is done. 

I am just wondering if this is standard procedure, and also if them offering a reduction on the balance is a show of accountability on their part?  Will I have a leg to stand on by asking them to confirm they will remove the default before I pay anything. 

Some things are not adding up here as you cannot be liable for seven months of a contract. If Vodafone have never received a cancellation request then you're liable for the entire contract, if they received a cancellation request within the cooling off period then you're liable for the time on network up to when they received that request. There is no other option.

It's important also to understand that cancelling within 14 days does not necessarily mean nothing to pay. If you used the network, however briefly, they are entitled to charge you for that time on the network on a pro-rata basis up until cancellation. This is why I think they did receive a cancellation request as, unless it was an incredibly cheap deal, £181 is just not enough for an entire contract.  Either way there will have been a bill to pay and you did indeed get a bill which I'm assuming you didn't pay so technically Vodafone are correct to issue a default however unfair it seems.. 

Getting Vodafone to remove an incorrect default is (or at least it was) an incredibly time consuming process, getting them to remove a correctly issued default I would suggest is a non starter. An £80 discount is not bad although don't be fooled by their patter, "pay us and we'll remove the default". They won't  On the other side you've only nine months until it's gone for good.

Assuming everything went your way and Vodafone agreed to remove the default it would take at least a couple of months, probably longer, so almost at September anyway. Whether Lowells will chase this up in the coming months is anyone's guess. If they haven't been in touch already I'd suggest it's highly unlikely. 

Unless you're planning on getting a mortgage between now and September I'd be more inclined to just let it ride and see what happens rather than wasting energy chasing Vodafone over something they're highly unlikely to do.   

PixelPound

kaMelo said:

AMB1994 said:

kaMelo said:

Yahoo_Mail said:

AMB1994 said:

Surely vodafone will be able to see that the phone was never used, the sim never made any active calls after the date i sent it back? .. I didn't stop paying as I never paid anything, i didnt use the contract or the phone for longer than a day? 

They will be able to see that the SIM wasn't used, they'd have no idea if the phone was used or not, certainly not if it was used on a different network.

The OP states in the opening post the SIM was used.
"I took the phone home and realised in the first day that the vodafone signal at my home was terrible"


To the OP, even if you send the phone back within the cooling off period, if you used the network they will issue a bill for that from the time you first went on the network to the time they received the cancellation.
Without knowing how much the contract was for per month it's difficult to say how it's ended up at £181. However Vodafone's £5 per month late fees added to the outstanding amount it's entirely possible.

What doesn't make sense however is that Vodafone are claiming not to have received a cancellation notice.  Without a phone return and cancellation of the contract, you would be responsible for the entire contract amount which would presumably be for far more than £181. This would imply to me that they actually did receive the phone back and cancel the contract and the £181 are charges for time on the network plus other unknown charges (late fees, debt collection etc)

Whilst Vodafone's network was as robust as ever, the administration and customer services side of things however in that time period was nothing short of shambolic. The changeover of software caused no end of problems for them and trying to get anything fixed felt like you were on the hamster wheel, going nowhere whilst on hold to the Vodafone no-helpline.

I think you will waste a lot of time and energy and get nowhere fast in trying with Vodafone to get the default removed and chances are it will time out before you get it removed anyway.  

Hello was wondering if you had any advice as I have an update on this issue. 
The £181 was for 7 months of phone contract as Vodafone said they didnt receive a cancellation from phones4u. I got in touch with Vodafone saying the I didnt think it was fair they are charging me for 7 months of a phone contract I never used and I would like to have the default removed as I didnt think it was fairly issued. They replied offering me a £40 discount on the £181 balance. I responded saying that the offer of £40 off the balance didnt make sense to me as the issue wasn't that I can't afford to pay the balance but that I dont believe I owe the money and want the default removed. They responded again to offer me £80 off the balance and said that they will consider removing the default but can't confirm or deny whether they will do that unless I pay the balance first. 

This just seems slightly bizarre to me. 'They can't confirm or deny that they will remove the default.' It just seems to me like they are going to get me to pay the balance and then refuse to remove the default once this is done. 

I am just wondering if this is standard procedure, and also if them offering a reduction on the balance is a show of accountability on their part?  Will I have a leg to stand on by asking them to confirm they will remove the default before I pay anything. 

Some things are not adding up here as you cannot be liable for seven months of a contract. If Vodafone have never received a cancellation request then you're liable for the entire contract, if they received a cancellation request within the cooling off period then you're liable for the time on network up to when they received that request. There is no other option.

It's important also to understand that cancelling within 14 days does not necessarily mean nothing to pay. If you used the network, however briefly, they are entitled to charge you for that time on the network on a pro-rata basis up until cancellation. This is why I think they did receive a cancellation request as, unless it was an incredibly cheap deal, £181 is just not enough for an entire contract.  Either way there will have been a bill to pay and you did indeed get a bill which I'm assuming you didn't pay so technically Vodafone are correct to issue a default however unfair it seems.. 

Getting Vodafone to remove an incorrect default is (or at least it was) an incredibly time consuming process, getting them to remove a correctly issued default I would suggest is a non starter. An £80 discount is not bad although don't be fooled by their patter, "pay us and we'll remove the default". They won't  On the other side you've only nine months until it's gone for good.

Assuming everything went your way and Vodafone agreed to remove the default it would take at least a couple of months, probably longer, so almost at September anyway. Whether Lowells will chase this up in the coming months is anyone's guess. If they haven't been in touch already I'd suggest it's highly unlikely. 

Unless you're planning on getting a mortgage between now and September I'd be more inclined to just let it ride and see what happens rather than wasting energy chasing Vodafone over something they're highly unlikely to do.   

So a couple of options here. If the default is falling off in 9 months and you are not applying for anything, then getting as big a discount and settling may well put it to bed without having to worry. It really depends on how much your time and effort is worth.

Otherwise you could challenge, but with Phones4U gone it will be hard to show that you returned everything, unless you have proof? The contract was with Vodafone and you were relying on Phones4U to tell them you cancelled. They may well have billed for 6 or 7 months and then cancelled due to non-payment, that's not unusual.