Care home fees - can we legitimately dispose of some savings?

Savvy_Sue

wilfred30 said:

Generally speaking then, I presume it would be for the Local Authority to decide as they would be lumbered with paying the cost of the care for someone who couldn't pay it themselves.

Yes, always. And I'll refer you back to an earlier post on this thread: 

Brynsam said:

Mickey666 said:

Out of interest, how far back does this 'deliberate deprivation of assets' thing go?

I can see that giving everything away the week before someone needs a care home is likely to be deliberate, but what about the year before, or five years, or 10 years?  Supposing a parent bought their child a house 20 years ago, that would clearly be deliberate and it would deprive themselves of assets (the sort of thing that parents often do) but how would this be regarded by 'the powers that be' when it comes to care home fees?  How is anyone to know if they'll need a care home in the future?

After the events of this year and their impact on the economy, LAs will be looking even harder for every last penny of savings, so expect the look back to get longer and more stringent. People like the OP in this thread are going to be sorely disappointed if they think they can preserve their inheritance by expecting others to pay for care of their aged parents.

badmemory

From conversations I have had with people who know/deal with this sort of thing, my LA is very tight on this whereas a neighbouring LA is not.  So do you feel lucky?  Also it seems to be getting harder for them to insist you need a care home & some are definitely being sent home to die alone if they have few funds, especially if they have taken out equity release, meaning there is no value left in the property.

Keep_pedalling

 badmemory said:

From conversations I have had with people who know/deal with this sort of thing, my LA is very tight on this whereas a neighbouring LA is not.  So do you feel lucky?  Also it seems to be getting harder for them to insist you need a care home & some are definitely being sent home to die alone if they have few funds, especially if they have taken out equity release, meaning there is no value left in the property.

I know from experience that it is very difficult to get past the LA panel who oversee the financial approval for residential care. Their criteria means you have to be in a very bad way before you can get a place.

There is no way that is happening to us. 

Sea_Shell

How do they actually do a financial check, and what documents do they require?

If you always had, say £50,000 saved in an account for years with a random building society, and then cleared that account out (using a "disposable" Current Account) and closed it, how would the LA ever know that you'd had that money in the first place.

Have banks/BS always had to report accounts to  HMRC in the same way that they do now (for interest purposes)?

Savvy_Sue

I don't believe banks report, but LAs do look back, ie it's not just the most recent set of statements they'll ask to see.

I'm sure you're not suggesting a way of making a fraudulent claim, but it's not THAT easy to do so.

Sea_Shell

Savvy_Sue said:

I don't believe banks report, but LAs do look back, ie it's not just the most recent set of statements they'll ask to see.

I'm sure you're not suggesting a way of making a fraudulent claim, but it's not THAT easy to do so.

Of course not!

However I am interested in how the system actually works.    If you provide 10+ years bank statements for your main CA and savings account, and these do not show any questionable cash movements, how are other accounts checked?

Mojisola

Sea_Shell said:

However I am interested in how the system actually works.    If you provide 10+ years bank statements for your main CA and savings account, and these do not show any questionable cash movements, how are other accounts checked?

Like when you're claiming means tested benefits, you are asked to declare all your assets, including bank accounts, savings accounts, PBs, property, etc.

If you decided to hide anything, you're committing fraud.

Sea_Shell

Mojisola said:

Sea_Shell said:

However I am interested in how the system actually works.    If you provide 10+ years bank statements for your main CA and savings account, and these do not show any questionable cash movements, how are other accounts checked?

Like when you're claiming means tested benefits, you are asked to declare all your assets, including bank accounts, savings accounts, PBs, property, etc.

If you decided to hide anything, you're committing fraud.

Of course.   Current assets are more clear cut.

But with deprivation of assets, if the assets were given away years before, a current PoA may never know that these assets ever existed, if they were not the beneficiary.

The paper trail would go cold with time.

Savvy_Sue

Sea_Shell said:

Savvy_Sue said:

I don't believe banks report, but LAs do look back, ie it's not just the most recent set of statements they'll ask to see.

I'm sure you're not suggesting a way of making a fraudulent claim, but it's not THAT easy to do so.

Of course not!

However I am interested in how the system actually works.    If you provide 10+ years bank statements for your main CA and savings account, and these do not show any questionable cash movements, how are other accounts checked?

Yes, I was fairly sure YOU were not suggesting this as a plan!

I am not sure how many months / years they ask for, but they do ask for all. So it's not a question of your 'main' accounts, it's ALL your accounts. 

How someone with PofA would track all these down I'm not sure, yes, eventually the paper trail would go cold if accounts were closed after transferring large sums out. But it definitely rules out moving money and closing accounts just as someone is being assessed for care needs - at least for anyone who is not intentionally hiding assets, and it's a big risk for anyone who is trying to pull a fast one / commit fraud. 

Savvy_Sue

By the way, I acknowledge that the thread title says 'legitimately'. There's a straight 'no' to that: it's the logistics where it can get murky. But I think if everyone asking themselves that question kept the 'legitimately' in their mind, and thought about the implications of being able to shift money around when you KNOW someone needs care, most people would get to the right answer ...