BITCOIN

Aegis

Zola. said:

I have known about bitcoin for years. In the last few months alone I have read approx 10 books around the subject and in-depth right on the subject. I have also read countless long-form articles, as well as listened to hundreds of hours of long-form podcasts, often featuring some of the best investors on this planet. So I think I am well versed in bitcoin. 

The fact that you do not seem to be able to grasp the value proposition is a clear demonstration that you have not looked into it deeply.

Then you should have no problem demonstrating the knowledge you have gained in such a way that a genuine information seeker can digest, naturally coming immediately to your point of view. So tell me, how do you value a bitcoin (by which I mean how do you work out whether the price you are being offered represents fair value for that token), and how is the method you use different when it comes to valuing a dogecoin, which you have implied is worthless.

For the record, I've known about bitcoin for longer than 10 years, have been working in financial services that whole time, have advised countless people on how to invest, and have seen scams rear their heads from time to time.  During that time I have sat investment exams to degree level and have headed up the research facility at one firm I worked at.  The idea that you can just handwave my legitimate experience away because I don't agree with you is laughable.

Aegis

Cus said:

I think it's very difficult to not have an emotional involvement.  For example one might not buy tobacco or oil stocks, or they do buy biotech or electric car stocks etc etc.

An ethical preference is a bit different to an emotional attachment to an investment, largely because the former should drive purchases while the second is a barrier to selling.  If you're an ethical investor who decides not to invest in, for example, arms, then you would never buy such companies and would automatically sell investments which moved in that direction.  If you became emotionally attached to an investment, you might find all sorts of reasons to retain the holding even when a purely objective view would tell you to sell.

Zola.

Aegis said:

Zola. said:

I have known about bitcoin for years. In the last few months alone I have read approx 10 books around the subject and in-depth right on the subject. I have also read countless long-form articles, as well as listened to hundreds of hours of long-form podcasts, often featuring some of the best investors on this planet. So I think I am well versed in bitcoin. 

The fact that you do not seem to be able to grasp the value proposition is a clear demonstration that you have not looked into it deeply.

Then you should have no problem demonstrating the knowledge you have gained in such a way that a genuine information seeker can digest, naturally coming immediately to your point of view. So tell me, how do you value a bitcoin (by which I mean how do you work out whether the price you are being offered represents fair value for that token), and how is the method you use different when it comes to valuing a dogecoin, which you have implied is worthless.

For the record, I've known about bitcoin for longer than 10 years, have been working in financial services that whole time, have advised countless people on how to invest, and have seen scams rear their heads from time to time.  During that time I have sat investment exams to degree level and have headed up the research facility at one firm I worked at.  The idea that you can just handwave my legitimate experience away because I don't agree with you is laughable.

Sorry if I pinched a nerve there. 

How do you value the world's first open monetary network (connecting billions of people without any bank access), on an incorruptible protocol with programmed digital scarcity, a $1TN market cap and average CAGR of almost 200%? Highly enough to invest.

Some say when you understand it you'll probably never be happy with how much you have. 

Unless you study Bitcoin to understand fundamentally how it actually works on a semi technical level, anything I say to you will not really resonate with you. 

The benefits have been covered many times in this thread. I put some concise bullets in this thread a few pages back. 
Here a simple website that debunks many of the lame arguments that come up, such as it " being a scam"
https://endthefud.org/

Have you read any books on the subject? If not I can recommend some. Curious to know if you remember what specifically you looked into and when and what your findings were. 

tebbins

Zola. said:

Aegis said:

Zola. said:

I have known about bitcoin for years. In the last few months alone I have read approx 10 books around the subject and in-depth right on the subject. I have also read countless long-form articles, as well as listened to hundreds of hours of long-form podcasts, often featuring some of the best investors on this planet. So I think I am well versed in bitcoin. 

The fact that you do not seem to be able to grasp the value proposition is a clear demonstration that you have not looked into it deeply.

Then you should have no problem demonstrating the knowledge you have gained in such a way that a genuine information seeker can digest, naturally coming immediately to your point of view. So tell me, how do you value a bitcoin (by which I mean how do you work out whether the price you are being offered represents fair value for that token), and how is the method you use different when it comes to valuing a dogecoin, which you have implied is worthless.

For the record, I've known about bitcoin for longer than 10 years, have been working in financial services that whole time, have advised countless people on how to invest, and have seen scams rear their heads from time to time.  During that time I have sat investment exams to degree level and have headed up the research facility at one firm I worked at.  The idea that you can just handwave my legitimate experience away because I don't agree with you is laughable.

Sorry if I pinched a nerve there. 

How do you value the world's first open monetary network (connecting billions of people without any bank access), on an incorruptible protocol with programmed digital scarcity and $1TN market cap?  Highly enough to invest.

You really don't get "how to value an investment proposition" do you?

Some say when you understand it you'll probably never be happy with how much you have. 

Unless you study Bitcoin to understand fundamentally how it actually works on a semi technical level, anything I say to you will not really resonate with you. 

The benefits have been covered many times in this thread. I put some concise bullets in this thread a few pages back. 
Here a simple website that debunks many of the lame arguments that come up, such as it " being a scam"
https://endthefud.org/

Have you read any books on the subject? If not I can recommend some. Curious to know if you remember what specifically you looked into and when and what your findings were. 

Mate, leave it, that last comment was a mic drop moment. You're being pwned like a heckler in a Steve Hofstetter video.

Zola.

Doubtful. 

Scottex99

Imagine knowing about BTC for 10 years and owning 0 as it becomes the fastest growing asset of all time, lol.

I do like the line of questioning though. I’ve been asking how SHIB has managed to do 1000000x myself with next to no fundamentals so it does make sense that people would question the difference. (Good to see SHIB is now dropping, that pretty much had to be the top by MC etc)

Someone smarter than will explain it properly but basically BTC is the flagship world first decentralised digital currency. Scarce too as it’s capped to 21m supply and about 18m are already out. Hence the $1tn MC and expected pump to new ATHs later this year.

DOGE is a meme coin, zero utility and I think the supply increases by 5% per year (?) it’s still a top 10 coin despite being “worthless”‘though, let’s call that network effect. SHIB & DOGE should eventually go to 0 where they belong whilst BTC gets more valuable and more rare

Aegis

Zola. said:

Aegis said:

Zola. said:

I have known about bitcoin for years. In the last few months alone I have read approx 10 books around the subject and in-depth right on the subject. I have also read countless long-form articles, as well as listened to hundreds of hours of long-form podcasts, often featuring some of the best investors on this planet. So I think I am well versed in bitcoin. 

The fact that you do not seem to be able to grasp the value proposition is a clear demonstration that you have not looked into it deeply.

Then you should have no problem demonstrating the knowledge you have gained in such a way that a genuine information seeker can digest, naturally coming immediately to your point of view. So tell me, how do you value a bitcoin (by which I mean how do you work out whether the price you are being offered represents fair value for that token), and how is the method you use different when it comes to valuing a dogecoin, which you have implied is worthless.

For the record, I've known about bitcoin for longer than 10 years, have been working in financial services that whole time, have advised countless people on how to invest, and have seen scams rear their heads from time to time.  During that time I have sat investment exams to degree level and have headed up the research facility at one firm I worked at.  The idea that you can just handwave my legitimate experience away because I don't agree with you is laughable.

Sorry if I pinched a nerve there.

How do you value the world's first open monetary network (connecting billions of people without any bank access), on an incorruptible protocol with programmed digital scarcity, a $1TN market cap and average CAGR of almost 200%? Highly enough to invest.

Some say when you understand it you'll probably never be happy with how much you have. 

Unless you study Bitcoin to understand fundamentally how it actually works on a semi technical level, anything I say to you will not really resonate with you. 

The benefits have been covered many times in this thread. I put some concise bullets in this thread a few pages back. 
Here a simple website that debunks many of the lame arguments that come up, such as it " being a scam"
https://endthefud.org/

Have you read any books on the subject? If not I can recommend some. Curious to know if you remember what specifically you looked into and when and what your findings were. 

Apology accepted, I'm sure you must be new to debate - in general, it's common courtesy to avoid ad hominem arguments and instead to focus on providing actual information that backs up your point.  Which you have not done, you have simply confirmed to me that you, like many others, cannot answer simple investment questions.

How do I value the world's first open monetary network?  Worthless, in and of itself.  Like I said, the history doesn't matter, only the future.  Incorruptible protocol - not unique.  Digital scarcity - yes, bitcoin is designed to be scarce, but clones are not just possible but easy and thriving.  A $1tn market cap and growth of 200% per annum tells me nothing about what will happen in future.  I look at Northern Rock as a classic example of a company growing fast for a number of years followed by a sudden and irrevocable descent in value, and that was a company actually doing something, not a simple set of unique tokens that give no ownership of anything else.

I do note that you are unwilling to actually provide the information that I specifically asked for, like so many others.  Your excuse that it will not resonate with me just sounds like a poor excuse.  I am not an idiot, and I have experience of analysing investments, so believe me, if it can be understood, I can likely understand it.  If it doesn't make sense to me, then to me that's going to be your problem, not mine.

Remember, the specific request is "how do I judge a fair value for bitcoin, and how does that same measure differ when it comes to analysis of a latecomer like dogecoin?"

Aegis

Scottex99 said:

Imagine knowing about BTC for 10 years and owning 0 as it becomes the fastest growing asset of all time, lol.

I do like the line of questioning though. I’ve been asking how SHIB has managed to do 1000000x myself with next to no fundamentals so it does make sense that people would question the difference. (Good to see SHIB is now dropping, that pretty much had to be the top by MC etc)

Someone smarter than will explain it properly but basically BTC is the flagship world first decentralised digital currency. Scarce too as it’s capped to 21m supply and about 18m are already out. Hence the $1tn MC and expected pump to new ATHs later this year.

DOGE is a meme coin, zero utility and I think the supply increases by 5% per year (?) it’s still a top 10 coin despite being “worthless”‘though, let’s call that network effect. SHIB & DOGE should eventually go to 0 where they belong whilst BTC gets more valuable and more rare

See, that's where I see the risk.  You think BTC is special compared to something like DOGE.  I don't, I see them as the same, but with short term mania backing up BTC.  Yes, some people have done very well speculating that the price will go up, but I worry that eventually the bubble will burst.  If it does, crypto assets generally have no underlying ownership of anything, while if a company goes bust you at least have a call on any surviving assets.  On top of that, there are bankruptcy and administration steps that a company can take to protect its value, again this simply doesn't exist in the world of cryptocurrency.

And yes, I proudly own no cryptocurrency coins and, until shown how to analyse coins for value, will continue to do so.

tebbins

Scottex99 said:

Imagine knowing about BTC for 10 years and owning 0 as it becomes the fastest growing asset of all time, lol.

I do like the line of questioning though. I’ve been asking how SHIB has managed to do 1000000x myself with next to no fundamentals so it does make sense that people would question the difference. (Good to see SHIB is now dropping, that pretty much had to be the top by MC etc)

No cryptocurrencies have any fundamental value anymore than Bull manure. BTC is just more well-known.

Someone smarter than will explain it properly but basically BTC is the flagship world first decentralised digital currency. Scarce too as it’s capped to 21m supply and about 18m are already out. Hence the $1tn MC and expected pump to new ATHs later this year.

And I'm sure one day it will make a lovely collector's item.
Why does the fact it has a cap mean "hence" the $1tn market cap, what connects one with the other? Bull manure is a scarce resource but it doesn't have a $1tn market cap. Why is it "expected" to reach new ATHs? If there is a consensus forecast why hasn't the market already adjusted?

DOGE is a meme coin, zero utility and I think the supply increases by 5% per year (?) it’s still a top 10 coin despite being “worthless”‘though, let’s call that network effect. SHIB & DOGE should eventually go to 0 where they belong whilst BTC gets more valuable and more rare

Does BTC do anything DOGE doesn't?

None of that makes any sense.

I notice you think in quite authoritarian/fixed mindset terms, I.e. where things belong, BTC is expected (appeal to authority/the masses, saying BTC "is expected" by whom, the man?). Once people with your mindset become fixated on something the only thing that de-addicts you is when it screws you over. So I'll put you on ignore til after the Crypto Craze has passed then watch how silent these threads go.

adindas

Some thoughts on the Valuation of Bitcoin

Why Do Bitcoins Have Value?

https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/100314/why-do-bitcoins-have-value.asp

Why Do Bitcoins Have Value?

https://time.com/nextadvisor/investing/cryptocurrency/why-do-bitcoins-have-value/

What Determines the Price of 1 Bitcoin?

https://www.investopedia.com/tech/what-determines-value-1-bitcoin/