Claim for 5 PCNs

lowryder

https://docs.google.com/document/d/13e6pSJGawA8JwEnCEU3eOoywjQwqrWGoZvLb7c2jg6s/edit?usp=sharing
This is a draft of my WS.
I will be also adding the following:

• if you are defending as keeper, not driver, include a copy of Schedule 4 of the POFA - there is a link in post #1 above.
• copy of Henry Greenslade's wording from the POPLA Annual Report 2015 'Understanding Keeper Liability'.
• Hancock v Promontoria (Chesnut) Limited [2020] EWCA Civ 907, paragraphs 75 and 76
• Excel v Wilkinson

lowryder

Can they add another witness statement? I submitted it yesterday and have sent my witness statement to them... I have just received another email from them 1 hour ago stating they have proof of non-payment and sent me a screenshot with all of the payments that had my VRM... They added a "Pay by phone" Log which shows two payments ever for that parking space that are associated to my VRN. That is definitely not all of the payments . I have checked in my JustPark and I have few payments in December for instance that were not included...

I don't even think what they have sent is within the deadline?! If they have sent it in today, then it is less than 14 days. My hearing is set for 18/05/2021...

lowryder

Should I send another witness statement from myself to the court today with several examples of my payment on JustPark that were not included in the "Pay Log" they have provided?

On the leaftlet I got, it said 14 days before the hearing date. My understand is that if they sent it today, it's outside the deadline; and in a similar way, mine will be outside the deadline as well.

Coupon-mad

Yes, yes, yes.  A short supplementary WS saying what the Claimant has suddenly supplied, and pointing out that it is plainly not the full record!

Johnersh

Be careful. If you have a record of some old payments, you may invite the question why do you not have the record of the payments in question.

I suspect the log disclosed is limited to a specific date range, rather than all parking events ever... 

lowryder

Johnersh said:

Be careful. If you have a record of some old payments, you may invite the question why do you not have the record of the payments in question.

I suspect the log disclosed is limited to a specific date range, rather than all parking events ever... 

Good thinking!
However, I strongly believe their records are incomplete.

This is the only paragraph they have added in their SUPPLEMENTARY WS:

"The Defendant failed to make payment via the Just Park app when the Charges were issued.
Exhibited at “EXHIBIT X” of this Supplementary Witness Statement is a screenshot from my

Company’s system showing that there was no payment made for the Vehicle on the dates the Charges were issued. The screenshot shows all payment received for the Vehicle and confirms that payments were only received on DATE 1 and DATE 2 (both in October 2019). There were no payments made for the Chagres that are the subject of the claim."

Firstly, they mention that it is "all payment received for the Vehicle".
Secondly, the payments that appear in their system are from October 2019, I have multiple payments, for instance, in late Nov 2019 and late Dec 2019 on my account. All the PCNs they claim are in the range of March 2019 (4 in March -  Apr) to Jan 2020 (1 in Jan). Should they have only included a range, it should have been March 2019 to Jan 2020 and as I have personally parked there in Nov and Dec (based on my JustPark account) -- to me it looks that their records are incomplete.

What do you think?

Coupon-mad

Might be worth stating that payment is not needed when students are unloading shopping, and the photos on each occasion suggest a brief stop only (if true)?  I can't see that your original WS said this but I thought we advised it...that the ticketing was immediate and allowed no grace period?  Doesn't seem to have been said.

Just another thought - email a SAR right now, to JustPark's DPO (prove you are the data subject who was the keeper of that car, attach that proof) and ask for all records of payments made and/or phone calls or attempted payments made for that vehicle at the site code xxxxxx (Aston University pay & display).  What will be interesting is if JustPark show more records than F1rst, throwing their evidence into question.

Johnersh

Is it possible that the ppc has only trawled their system for a single location code? There are TWO car parks here CIS Aston 5 and FP Aston 5. Is it feasible that they have different numbers and an incomplete check has been done. The statement is presumption and a lot of generic submission. 

Photos prove nothing if the parking driver used an app. The permit becomes a red herring. But there doesn't appear to be much about checks made for payment machine records or the app, remembering they bring this against you as keeper. 

There's an argument the case isn't fully made out, but it's a tough call.

On reflection the o/p's incomplete records aren't an issue if s/he can say they weren't driving on those dates, which explains why there is no record from you, but more concerningly, the payments that can be proven show that their system is unreliable or at worst misleading info has been incorporated into the witness evidence and that there is no witness to clarify the point. 

lowryder

Coupon-mad said:

Might be worth stating that payment is not needed when students are unloading shopping, and the photos on each occasion suggest a brief stop only (if true)?  I can't see that your original WS said this but I thought we advised it...that the ticketing was immediate and allowed no grace period?  Doesn't seem to have been said.

As it sounded very plausible, I did a check, but it seems like this wasn't the case. According to the time in the pictures supplied, they were all above the grace period (i.e. 10mins)... Most around that time, a few above -- 20 minutes...  BPA has a grace period of 10 mins...

Coupon-mad said:

Just another thought - email a SAR right now, to JustPark's DPO (prove you are the data subject who was the keeper of that car, attach that proof) and ask for all records of payments made and/or phone calls or attempted payments made for that vehicle at the site code xxxxxx (Aston University pay & display).  What will be interesting is if JustPark show more records than F1rst, throwing their evidence into question.

Don't have enough time to await for a SAR, but I do have access to my JustPark account and as I said, I have multiple payments in there for parking in the land in question. They said the total of payments made related to my VRN is two. Just on my account alone I could find loads other...
I am 100% their records aren't correct, unless they made this on purpose to make me look bad (doubt that though)...

lowryder

Johnersh said:

Is it possible that the ppc has only trawled their system for a single location code? There are TWO car parks here CIS Aston 5 and FP Aston 5. Is it feasible that they have different numbers and an incomplete check has been done. The statement is presumption and a lot of generic submission. 

Not possible; I have been a student of Aston University, and they have only two Car Parks where you can pay to park; one is Car Park 5, the other one is Car Park 12. Was surprised that they are named differently in my claim, but even the reason for issue is worded iconsistenly across all 5 PCNs.

Johnersh said:

Photos prove nothing if the parking driver used an app. The permit becomes a red herring. But there doesn't appear to be much about checks made for payment machine records or the app, remembering they bring this against you as keeper. 

There's an argument the case isn't fully made out, but it's a tough call.

On reflection the o/p's incomplete records aren't an issue if s/he can say they weren't driving on those dates, which explains why there is no record from you, but more concerningly, the payments that can be proven show that their system is unreliable or at worst misleading info has been incorporated into the witness evidence and that there is no witness to clarify the point. 

In my inital WS, I have specified there is no proof of non-payment and said the same about the pictures. I did say there is proof of no Pay & Display (as seen from the photos of the dashboard in their WS). I have emailed the WS to the court and to them and they immediately (24 hrs later) sent a "supplementary WS" containing a Payment Log with only two payments. As I know I have parked there myself multiple times, let alone others, there definitely couldn't be just two in total...