Council Not doing Furlough this time for Casual workers - is this right?

Chrissytree

My Sister works for a theatre that's run by the council. She's on a zero hours contract and was furloughed earlier in the year. Once the percentage went from 80% to 60% the council stopped paying it but when the amount was raised again she was hoping they'd reinstate it. They didn't. So she's not getting any money or work from them.

She asked why they weren't paying it this time and they said something about giving priority to permanent staff. 

Is this something they're allowed to do? I don't understand why they're refusing if it's the government that'll pay the money - are there other costs involved?

Can she appeal this somehow or is there any kind of legal protection for zero hours workers in this situation? She does qualify but they simply aren't going to apply for furlough for any casual staff.

Thanks for any help

bradders1983

An employer can decide to furlough whoever they like, it isnt a right and therefore there is no appeals process. 

[Deleted User]

There’s no entitlement to furlough. It’s at the employers discretion. 

Jeremy535897

I would say that she was very fortunate to be furloughed at all, given that councils are not normally expected to furlough employees, due to being publicly funded. As she is on a zero hours contract, the council aren't obliged to give her any work (unless she has worked regular hours over a long period, but this is only a possibility), and they could have associated costs like employer's NIC if they furloughed her.

Chrissytree

Jeremy535897 said:

I would say that she was very fortunate to be furloughed at all, given that councils are not normally expected to furlough employees, due to being publicly funded. As she is on a zero hours contract, the council aren't obliged to give her any work (unless she has worked regular hours over a long period, but this is only a possibility), and they could have associated costs like employer's NIC if they furloughed her.

She was working for them full time for about 4 years but on zero hours. 
I did wonder if there were other costs involved.
I guess I'm just finding it very frustrating that she's been working for them so long and been passed over for full time contracts a number of times. 

Jeremy535897

I sympathise. She may not in reality be on a zero hours contract. Just labelling it as one does not mean it really is, although challenging the position is not for the faint hearted. See:

"The Employment Appeals Tribunal in Pulse Healthcare Ltd v Carewatch Care Services Ltd & Ors (2012) determined that employment contracts must reflect the true nature of the employment. Zero hour contracts are meant to be a casual arrangement to enable employers to cater for changing levels of demand. However if a worker on a zero hour contract regularly works the same hours, then their employment contract reflects this, regardless of what their written contract states.

Having worked the same regular shifts for 6 months, it is likely that your true employment contract is not a zero hour contract. A regular hour employment contract gives you greater statutory employment rights than a zero hour contract."

From http://www.safeworkers.co.uk/zero-hours-contracts-explained.html

epm-84

Jeremy535897 said:

I would say that she was very fortunate to be furloughed at all, given that councils are not normally expected to furlough employees, due to being publicly funded. 

It depends whether the theatre is owned by the council directly or owned by a private limited company which the council owns.  I'm aware my bin collections are undertaken by a private limited company which the council owns, opposed to the council doing it directly.  It means the private limited company can bid for commercial contracts, as well as doing the council work.

Jeremy535897

epm-84 said:

Jeremy535897 said:

I would say that she was very fortunate to be furloughed at all, given that councils are not normally expected to furlough employees, due to being publicly funded. 

It depends whether the theatre is owned by the council directly or owned by a private limited company which the council owns.  I'm aware my bin collections are undertaken by a private limited company which the council owns, opposed to the council doing it directly.  It means the private limited company can bid for commercial contracts, as well as doing the council work.

OP says the council were paying her furlough.

epm-84

Jeremy535897 said:

epm-84 said:

Jeremy535897 said:

I would say that she was very fortunate to be furloughed at all, given that councils are not normally expected to furlough employees, due to being publicly funded. 

It depends whether the theatre is owned by the council directly or owned by a private limited company which the council owns.  I'm aware my bin collections are undertaken by a private limited company which the council owns, opposed to the council doing it directly.  It means the private limited company can bid for commercial contracts, as well as doing the council work.

OP says the council were paying her furlough.

Yes but a council owned company is often referred to as 'the council' by the public.  I bet if you asked most people in my town who empties the bin they would say the council, not the name of the council's company who does the collections.  

Jeremy535897

epm-84 said:

Jeremy535897 said:

epm-84 said:

Jeremy535897 said:

I would say that she was very fortunate to be furloughed at all, given that councils are not normally expected to furlough employees, due to being publicly funded. 

It depends whether the theatre is owned by the council directly or owned by a private limited company which the council owns.  I'm aware my bin collections are undertaken by a private limited company which the council owns, opposed to the council doing it directly.  It means the private limited company can bid for commercial contracts, as well as doing the council work.

OP says the council were paying her furlough.

Yes but a council owned company is often referred to as 'the council' by the public.  I bet if you asked most people in my town who empties the bin they would say the council, not the name of the council's company who does the collections.  

There is reference to the council being asked why they won't furlough her, so it seems most likely that the council is the employer. What you say is possible, but we can only answer the question asked (unless it is clear that the question is misconceived).

epm-84

Jeremy535897 said:

epm-84 said:

Jeremy535897 said:

epm-84 said:

Jeremy535897 said:

I would say that she was very fortunate to be furloughed at all, given that councils are not normally expected to furlough employees, due to being publicly funded. 

It depends whether the theatre is owned by the council directly or owned by a private limited company which the council owns.  I'm aware my bin collections are undertaken by a private limited company which the council owns, opposed to the council doing it directly.  It means the private limited company can bid for commercial contracts, as well as doing the council work.

OP says the council were paying her furlough.

Yes but a council owned company is often referred to as 'the council' by the public.  I bet if you asked most people in my town who empties the bin they would say the council, not the name of the council's company who does the collections.  

There is reference to the council being asked why they won't furlough her, so it seems most likely that the council is the employer. What you say is possible, but we can only answer the question asked (unless it is clear that the question is misconceived).

If an employer says they won't furlough someone then it's irrelevant who the employer is, as they don't have to furlough one.  You brought up the point of being lucky to be furloughed previously as councils aren't supposed to furlough staff so I mentioned how it could be the council owns the theatre and employs the staff indirectly.  As the OP mentions they are talking about their sister I don't think we can presume they know all the fine details of their sister's employment, like the opening line of the employment contract (saying the name of the other party) or the payee name of the bank account which pays her.