Small claims against me

Were_Doomed

But it's not £5k ... it's nearer £3k.

Intended sell price = £10,250 (or £10,490)
Part-ex value = £1,750
Cash paid = £5,250
Total "paid" = £7,000
Balance missing = £3,250 (or £3,490)

... and that's the seller's biggest problem with his claim - he's trying to profit over and above any shortfall from the original transaction, and that's something the OP would have to hammer home as part of any defence. (If he really has filed a claim then a claim for £3k+ is £205 whereas a claim for £5k+ is 455, so he's cost himself another £250 due to his error).

Aylesbury_Duck

^^ yes, I think that's the maths behind this.  It was the opening post that wasn't clear - OP suggested she should have paid £10250 instead of the £5250 she did pay, hence the £5k difference.  I'd guessed at a price of £12k for the car, based on the muddled maths and the most likely way that muddle occurred, but I think yours is the more likely scenario based on the later communication from the dealer.

Littleconfused

Thank you very much for your help. Iv never dealt with anything like this and feel out of my depth with it totally. I don’t know what I’m supposed to do and when. I looked online and seems I need to wait for a letter of allocation but when can I get me side of the story to the judge? Surely he would want both sides before a court case? 

Jack_Cork

£6,250 doesnt sound too cheap, plenty on Auto trader, ok higher mileage, but low miles doesnt always mean better

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202010285526117?postcode=sw1a1aa&price-from=5000&sort=relevance&year-from=2013&radius=60&include-delivery-option=on&make=NISSAN&price-to=6000&model=QASHQAI&onesearchad=New&onesearchad=Nearly New&onesearchad=Used&advertising-location=at_cars&page=1

Aylesbury_Duck

Littleconfused said:

Thank you very much for your help. Iv never dealt with anything like this and feel out of my depth with it totally. I don’t know what I’m supposed to do and when. I looked online and seems I need to wait for a letter of allocation but when can I get me side of the story to the judge? Surely he would want both sides before a court case? 

What exactly do you have by way of legal papers?  Can you photograph them, redact any personal or identifying information and post here?

In a small claims process, yes you have the opportunity to put forward your defence, but it's not clear you're in that process yet.

Manxman_in_exile

I know virtually nothing about cars but even so, a purchase price into five figures for a seven year old Qashqai sounds a lot to me.  And as far as I would be concerned, the much lower than average mileage diminishes its value even further.

We bought a two year old 12 plate Mondeo with good mileage (and in pristine condition) in 2014.  We were happy to pay five figures for it even though we thought it was quite expensive, but we trusted the dealer, knew they were honest, and we wanted the car.

If somebody said to me do you want to buy a seven year old Qashqai for £10k, I think I'd laugh at them - it seems a ridiculous price.  I still don't see that the price the OP thought she was paying necessarily points to a unilateral mistake by the dealer.

But I'd agree the circumstances sound bizarre. To me it's a toss up whether the OP can defend the claim or not.  I might be inclined to try to agree a fair settlement with the dealer IF he could sort out his sums - and get the correct trade-in value.

es5595

Littleconfused said:

Thank you very much for your help. Iv never dealt with anything like this and feel out of my depth with it totally.

Can you upload whatever you've received so far? And which month did you go and look at the car? Also, please hit the return key a few times to add some paragraphs into your response.
I would take a minute to write up your side of the case, from what I've gleaned so far, I'd imagine you want to write along the following lines; 

On (date your boyfriend told you to go and look at car) my boyfriend said he'd seen a potential new car for me at (garage name) as he went past. I'd been looking to exchange my car as I was a new mother with an 8 week old baby and mine was very low for getting baby and all their equipment in and out. 

I did not make an appointment but I just turned up at the garage to ask about the car (add its registration here). I met (salesman's name here) and he showed me the car and it seemed a much better fit for me. As I had my baby with me I declined a test drive but (salesman's name here) was very honest and thorough and highlighted the faults to me, namely the damaged bumper, low mileage and expiring MOT. I said I was interested, and, indicating my car, asked what he could give part-exchange for me to drive away in the Qashqai. 

He initially offered £1500 but I knew this was low as we had been offered more than this for a private sale to a friend. He increased this to £1750 which I agreed to, and I asked how much that would leave owing on the Qashqai, to which he replied £5250. Doing quick mental arithmetic in my head this was £7500 which was in the middle of my budget and seemed about right for the car, so I agreed and messaged by boyfriend to transfer the money over. 

I also went online to sort out the tax, and spoke to my insurance to get that moved over, although I was a little distracted as my baby had started crying for their feed/change, and being a new mum I was quite sleep-deprived. Whilst I was doing this (salesman) was sorting out all the paperwork for his end of it, and then helped me to move all my stuff and the baby seat from my old car into the Qashqai. He confirmed with his finance department the payment had been received, gave me all the paperwork and I got into the car and headed home. 

Once I had arrived home and was starting baby to feed I had a voicemail from (salesman). It was a completely different tone to his recent 'goodbye and safe journey', saying I hadn't paid for the car and I owed him £5k. 
I initially assumed the payment hadn't gone through so once baby was fed and settling I spoke to my boyfriend who confirmed it had. I got back in contact with (salesman) who was now, like his voicemail, very aggressive and intimidating. He told me the price on the car was wrong, and if I didn't send another £5k he'd get the police involved.

I was so worried, and since he'd got my address and everything I called the police myself. They reassured me that I'd paid, I'd got the receipt (although when I checked it I saw he'd put down £1500 for the part-exchange of my car) and they were going to pass me onto ActionFraud as once the sale was complete the salesman should definitely not be hassling me for more money.

When the salesman got in touch again he aggressively demanded I return the car for my old one and a cash payment, but I didn't trust him to do this; it was enough hassle the first time trying to get everything into the car and swapped over, and I would have lost money (which being on maternity leave I simply cannot afford to) on the tax and insurance costs, as well as the full tank of fuel I'd put in the Qashqai. He wouldn't listen when I tried to explain this, just shouting over me.

I've since looked at prices for the car, wewantanycar.com quoted me XX for it and on auto trader its described as a 'good price', so I think this claim that I should have "known" it was wrong is simply untrue. At the time, I didn't even think it was a cheap price, simply a fair one.  

I hope this helps, but it would be really useful to see how far along this has gone, or if the salesman is simply trying to bluff you. As a new mum with everything else you're trying to deal with at the moment, he might think he can get away with it.

Aylesbury_Duck

es5595 said:

Littleconfused said:

Thank you very much for your help. Iv never dealt with anything like this and feel out of my depth with it totally.

Can you upload whatever you've received so far? And which month did you go and look at the car? Also, please hit the return key a few times to add some paragraphs into your response.
I would take a minute to write up your side of the case, from what I've gleaned so far, I'd imagine you want to write along the following lines; 

On (date your boyfriend told you to go and look at car) my boyfriend said he'd seen a potential new car for me at (garage name) as he went past. I'd been looking to exchange my car as I was a new mother with an 8 week old baby and mine was very low for getting baby and all their equipment in and out. 

I did not make an appointment but I just turned up at the garage to ask about the car (add its registration here). I met (salesman's name here) and he showed me the car and it seemed a much better fit for me. As I had my baby with me I declined a test drive but (salesman's name here) was very honest and thorough and highlighted the faults to me, namely the damaged bumper, low mileage and expiring MOT. I said I was interested, and, indicating my car, asked what he could give part-exchange for me to drive away in the Qashqai. 

He initially offered £1500 but I knew this was low as we had been offered more than this for a private sale to a friend. He increased this to £1750 which I agreed to, and I asked how much that would leave owing on the Qashqai, to which he replied £5250. Doing quick mental arithmetic in my head this was £7500 which was in the middle of my budget and seemed about right for the car, so I agreed and messaged by boyfriend to transfer the money over. 

I also went online to sort out the tax, and spoke to my insurance to get that moved over, although I was a little distracted as my baby had started crying for their feed/change, and being a new mum I was quite sleep-deprived. Whilst I was doing this (salesman) was sorting out all the paperwork for his end of it, and then helped me to move all my stuff and the baby seat from my old car into the Qashqai. He confirmed with his finance department the payment had been received, gave me all the paperwork and I got into the car and headed home. 

Once I had arrived home and was starting baby to feed I had a voicemail from (salesman). It was a completely different tone to his recent 'goodbye and safe journey', saying I hadn't paid for the car and I owed him £5k. 
I initially assumed the payment hadn't gone through so once baby was fed and settling I spoke to my boyfriend who confirmed it had. I got back in contact with (salesman) who was now, like his voicemail, very aggressive and intimidating. He told me the price on the car was wrong, and if I didn't send another £5k he'd get the police involved.

I was so worried, and since he'd got my address and everything I called the police myself. They reassured me that I'd paid, I'd got the receipt (although when I checked it I saw he'd put down £1500 for the part-exchange of my car) and they were going to pass me onto ActionFraud as once the sale was complete the salesman should definitely not be hassling me for more money.

When the salesman got in touch again he aggressively demanded I return the car for my old one and a cash payment, but I didn't trust him to do this; it was enough hassle the first time trying to get everything into the car and swapped over, and I would have lost money (which being on maternity leave I simply cannot afford to) on the tax and insurance costs, as well as the full tank of fuel I'd put in the Qashqai. He wouldn't listen when I tried to explain this, just shouting over me.

I've since looked at prices for the car, wewantanycar.com quoted me XX for it and on auto trader its described as a 'good price', so I think this claim that I should have "known" it was wrong is simply untrue. At the time, I didn't even think it was a cheap price, simply a fair one.  

I hope this helps, but it would be really useful to see how far along this has gone, or if the salesman is simply trying to bluff you. As a new mum with everything else you're trying to deal with at the moment, he might think he can get away with it.

I'd add something about being a new mum to a baby.  You've hardly mentioned it.  And dial up the emotion in the argument, you've been a little dispassionate here.  Don't forget to include lots of things that didn't happen as well.

Littleconfused

Aylesbury_Duck said:

^^ yes, I think that's the maths behind this.  It was the opening post that wasn't clear - OP suggested she should have paid £10250 instead of the £5250 she did pay, hence the £5k difference.  I'd guessed at a price of £12k for the car, based on the muddled maths and the most likely way that muddle occurred, but I think yours is the more likely scenario based on the later communication from the dealer.

That is so kind of you and thank you so much for the time you have put into this, I am so grateful to you.

Littleconfused

Aylesbury_Duck said:

es5595 said:

Littleconfused said:

Thank you very much for your help. Iv never dealt with anything like this and feel out of my depth with it totally.

Can you upload whatever you've received so far? And which month did you go and look at the car? Also, please hit the return key a few times to add some paragraphs into your response.
I would take a minute to write up your side of the case, from what I've gleaned so far, I'd imagine you want to write along the following lines; 

On (date your boyfriend told you to go and look at car) my boyfriend said he'd seen a potential new car for me at (garage name) as he went past. I'd been looking to exchange my car as I was a new mother with an 8 week old baby and mine was very low for getting baby and all their equipment in and out. 

I did not make an appointment but I just turned up at the garage to ask about the car (add its registration here). I met (salesman's name here) and he showed me the car and it seemed a much better fit for me. As I had my baby with me I declined a test drive but (salesman's name here) was very honest and thorough and highlighted the faults to me, namely the damaged bumper, low mileage and expiring MOT. I said I was interested, and, indicating my car, asked what he could give part-exchange for me to drive away in the Qashqai. 

He initially offered £1500 but I knew this was low as we had been offered more than this for a private sale to a friend. He increased this to £1750 which I agreed to, and I asked how much that would leave owing on the Qashqai, to which he replied £5250. Doing quick mental arithmetic in my head this was £7500 which was in the middle of my budget and seemed about right for the car, so I agreed and messaged by boyfriend to transfer the money over. 

I also went online to sort out the tax, and spoke to my insurance to get that moved over, although I was a little distracted as my baby had started crying for their feed/change, and being a new mum I was quite sleep-deprived. Whilst I was doing this (salesman) was sorting out all the paperwork for his end of it, and then helped me to move all my stuff and the baby seat from my old car into the Qashqai. He confirmed with his finance department the payment had been received, gave me all the paperwork and I got into the car and headed home. 

Once I had arrived home and was starting baby to feed I had a voicemail from (salesman). It was a completely different tone to his recent 'goodbye and safe journey', saying I hadn't paid for the car and I owed him £5k. 
I initially assumed the payment hadn't gone through so once baby was fed and settling I spoke to my boyfriend who confirmed it had. I got back in contact with (salesman) who was now, like his voicemail, very aggressive and intimidating. He told me the price on the car was wrong, and if I didn't send another £5k he'd get the police involved.

I was so worried, and since he'd got my address and everything I called the police myself. They reassured me that I'd paid, I'd got the receipt (although when I checked it I saw he'd put down £1500 for the part-exchange of my car) and they were going to pass me onto ActionFraud as once the sale was complete the salesman should definitely not be hassling me for more money.

When the salesman got in touch again he aggressively demanded I return the car for my old one and a cash payment, but I didn't trust him to do this; it was enough hassle the first time trying to get everything into the car and swapped over, and I would have lost money (which being on maternity leave I simply cannot afford to) on the tax and insurance costs, as well as the full tank of fuel I'd put in the Qashqai. He wouldn't listen when I tried to explain this, just shouting over me.

I've since looked at prices for the car, wewantanycar.com quoted me XX for it and on auto trader its described as a 'good price', so I think this claim that I should have "known" it was wrong is simply untrue. At the time, I didn't even think it was a cheap price, simply a fair one.  

I hope this helps, but it would be really useful to see how far along this has gone, or if the salesman is simply trying to bluff you. As a new mum with everything else you're trying to deal with at the moment, he might think he can get away with it.

I'd add something about being a new mum to a baby.  You've hardly mentioned it.  And dial up the emotion in the argument, you've been a little dispassionate here.  Don't forget to include lots of things that didn't happen as well.

Littleconfused said: ah really? Ok I didn’t really think of it like that, just that he is claiming to be the victim like I deliberately scammed  him when I most definitely did not, it was a genuine
purchase on my part.

Aylesbury_Duck said:

^^ yes, I think that's the maths behind this.  It was the opening post that wasn't clear - OP suggested she should have paid £10250 instead of the £5250 she did pay, hence the £5k difference.  I'd guessed at a price of £12k for the car, based on the muddled maths and the most likely way that muddle occurred, but I think yours is the more likely scenario based on the later communication from the dealer.

That is so kind of you and thank you so much for the time you have put into this, I am so grateful to you.