Letting Agent messed up the Notice to Quit to our tenant

[Deleted User]

steampowered said:

Lover_of_Lycra said:

I completely disagree with this. 

A flow chart for a Section 21 doesn’t really tell the op anything. The notice to quit for SAT could be a bit tricky with the ish dates but the new PRT notice to leave has been created so that you don’t need to be a legal professional in order to complete it. Furthermore, if it’s a service the letting agency offer and charge for then they should know how to do it correctly. 

I think we need to live in the real world. s21 notices are highly technical documents. Most s21 notices are invalid. Especially those prepared by amateur landlords, letting agents or other non-legally qualified people.

The information I can find suggests that 70% or so of eviction cases are held up by incorrect s21 notices: https://www.lettingagenttoday.co.uk/breaking-news/2016/10/up-to-70-of-eviction-notices-could-be-illegal-claims-law-firm?source=related_articles

I think anyone who is relying on a letting agent to guarantee that a s21 notice they have drawn up for a few quid is legally correct is kidding themselves. You don't take legal advice from a letting agent - you get that from a solicitor. Most of the time a technical issue with a defective s21 notice will never come to light as the tenant will leave of their own accord, but in cases where the tenant wishes to challenge the s21 notice or you need to go to court to evict, the landlord has to be alive to the risk that a defective s21 notice might need to be re-served.

Just like a landlord has to understand that a tenant does not need to leave the property just because a s21 notice has been served, and that it could be necessary to go through with eviction proceedings which take months. That is the risk you take when you open a lettings business - just like any other sort of business.

The position may be different in Scotland - I am only familiar with the position in England - but I would guess the same principles would apply.

Why are you going on about Section 21 notices for a property in Scotland? It’s totally irrelevant. Perhaps if you are completely unfamiliar with Scottish housing law you should refrain from trying to answer questions about Scottish housing law. There’s a reason I don’t  post on threads about leasehold properties. 

Section 21 notices are not highly technical and do not need an English law qualified solicitor to issue. 

BarleySugar

Aranyani said:

BarleySugar said:

We’ve already offered financial help, but our tenants have a very narrow location specification and they have a recently got a dog (without our permission). The letting agents are finding the dog excludes them from most properties.

Why would they need your permission to get a dog?

It is a condition of the lease that pets would be considered on request. Most landlords stipulate no pets, we at least were happy to consider pets. We have a dog ourselves and are now renting. In trying to find somewhere to rent, most landlords would not accept dogs.

newsgroupmonkey_

BarleySugar said:

Aranyani said:

BarleySugar said:

We’ve already offered financial help, but our tenants have a very narrow location specification and they have a recently got a dog (without our permission). The letting agents are finding the dog excludes them from most properties.

Why would they need your permission to get a dog?

It is a condition of the lease that pets would be considered on request. Most landlords stipulate no pets, we at least were happy to consider pets. We have a dog ourselves and are now renting. In trying to find somewhere to rent, most landlords would not accept dogs.

That's very generous. We struggled with this, even though we had similar in our AST so we didn't bother.

I find it astounding that people would get a dog without asking though.

When we were looking (which tbf was a long while back), the only places that would allow dogs weren't very nice and also asked for additional security (so basically forcing you to have the place professionally fumigated)

Jumblebumble

steampowered said:

Yes, that sounds very reasonable - generous, even.

Notices to quit are highly technical documents. You cannot realistically expect an estate agent to be familiar with all of the law and to guarantee to get it right. I know you are in Scotland but this flowchart gives you some idea: https://431bj62hscf91kqmgj258yg6-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/s21updatedSept2020-2-1.pdf

 If you wanted to be able to rely on the Notice to Quit being fully correct from the start, you should have got a lawyer involved from the start.

You are running a lettings business at the end of the day. You cannot expect the tenant to move out at a time convenient to you. Evicting them could take months. Could you be better off reaching an agreement with your tenant and paying them compensation to leave?

I think you are being over harsh on the OP
It is perfectly reasonable to pay a so called professional  whose business it is to be giving notices to quit  and expect them to know what they are doing.
Even silly old me would be able to follow your flow chart.

macman

An LA is not a 'professional', so-called or otherwise.
I could rent a high street unit tomorrow and set up a business (in England) as an letting agent, without any suitable training or qualifications (in Scotland and Wales, there is some limited regulation).
LA's are not lawyers, and they will simply be filling in an S21 based on some template that their mate gave them, or that they found on the internet. They and their clients are reliant on the fact that the tenants are likely to have even less legal knowledge than they do.

[Deleted User]

macman said:

An LA is not a 'professional', so-called or otherwise.
I could rent a high street unit tomorrow and set up a business (in England) as an letting agent, without any suitable training or qualifications (in Scotland and Wales, there is some limited regulation).
LA's are not lawyers, and they will simply be filling in an S21 based on some template that their mate gave them, or that they found on the internet. They and their clients are reliant on the fact that the tenants are likely to have even less legal knowledge than they do.

The OP is in Scotland. 

Letting agents in England don’t need legal training or some template from a mate to issue a Section 21 (why oh why are people still talking about Section 21s on a thread about a Scottish tenancy?). For AST that started or were renewed after 30th September 2015 the government has provided a template to use. You’d need to be a knuckle dragger not to be able to do it. 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/913745/New_Form_6a_2nd_September_2020.docx

Aranyani

BarleySugar said:

Aranyani said:

BarleySugar said:

We’ve already offered financial help, but our tenants have a very narrow location specification and they have a recently got a dog (without our permission). The letting agents are finding the dog excludes them from most properties.

Why would they need your permission to get a dog?

It is a condition of the lease that pets would be considered on request. Most landlords stipulate no pets, we at least were happy to consider pets. We have a dog ourselves and are now renting. In trying to find somewhere to rent, most landlords would not accept dogs.

Its incredible the amount of control landlords believe they can exert over their tenant's lives.

lookstraightahead

It might be quicker for you to buy another property. 

MaxJones

Everything has to be spot on, otherwise eviction is back to square one

Jumblebumble

Aranyani said:

BarleySugar said:

Aranyani said:

BarleySugar said:

We’ve already offered financial help, but our tenants have a very narrow location specification and they have a recently got a dog (without our permission). The letting agents are finding the dog excludes them from most properties.

Why would they need your permission to get a dog?

It is a condition of the lease that pets would be considered on request. Most landlords stipulate no pets, we at least were happy to consider pets. We have a dog ourselves and are now renting. In trying to find somewhere to rent, most landlords would not accept dogs.

Its incredible the amount of control landlords believe they can exert over their tenant's lives.

Its incredible how entitled some tenants are.
I know someone who had a  maisonette and a potential tenant wanted the landlord to pay to fence off the Garden so the she could bring her dog.  Her offer was politely declined