Guttering issue due to neighbours

panyg

I was hoping to get some advice please.

I have had issues for many years with water overflowing the gutters at the front of my house. I've had them cleaned every year and had parts replaced when needed.
I live in a terraced house and the gutter on the left side goes down a downpipe on my property. The gutter on the right side goes along to the house on that side and down their downpipe. However, I've just realised that the gutters on my neighbours house are raised in the middle, meaning that half the water from their house and all the water on my right side collects on my side. When it rains, the water flows over the gutter as there is nowhere for the water to go.

I mentioned this to my neighbour and they seem to expect me to pay to correct the issue with their guttering. Would it be unreasonable to expect them to fix this problem?

Also, I have had cracks in my house for many years, some very large ones. Could this be caused by the water overflowing?

Any advice would be appreciated.

AskAsk

as you are the one with the problem, all be it, it is coming from the neighbour's pipe as it would seem you share a downpipe?

it would be difficult to force them to pay for the repair as they don't care.  you could sue them for damage caused to your property from them being negligent, but this would not be easy to do and it would mean a dispute, which is bad with the neighbours.  is it expensive to fix?

maybe post a photo so we can see what you mean exactly.

unforeseen

Rather than being raised in the middle, could it be the case that the rest has sagged due to poor/missing supports? 

Jeepers_Creepers

Hi Pany.

Is this likely to have caused the cracks? Not in any way I can think of. Have you had these cracks filled at any time, and - if so - have they reappeared?

Anyhoo, your gutter. Your setup seems typical for a terraced property; a continuous length of guttering which is effectively 'shared' between the houses and handled by a number of downpipes, possibly fewer than the actual number of properties involved. How many properties make up your terrace? And where is your house in this? And the offending neighb's?

And can you tell from looking at the terrace from the front that your neighb's gutter is 'different' in that it goes up in t'middle? 

Hard to be certain at this point whether your overflowing is caused by inadequate/blocked downpipes, a simple environmental change in conditions (ie it rains a lot heavier these days...), or that your neighb - or a previous occupant - has modified their gutter so that it drains off better in both directions!

Are there any similar terraces in the area you can compare yours to?

The solution will depend on the cause.

greatcrested

Photo needed. but if neighbour does not care, and you do, then the cost of fixing gutters is negligible compared to the costs (financial, practical, emotional, legal) of turning this into a dispute.

I'd just get it fixed. That might mean

* adding a downpipe on your side if practical

* lowering the neighbour's gutter in the middle

* adjusting the neighbour's gutter beyond the centre - if it's dropped

* cleaning out the neighbour's downpipe (if blocked)

panyg

Thanks to everyone for their replies.
In answer to questions:

AskAsk said:

as you are the one with the problem, all be it, it is coming from the neighbour's pipe as it would seem you share a downpipe?

Yes, I am having issues due to water collecting in my gutters.

AskAsk said:

it would be difficult to force them to pay for the repair as they don't care.  you could sue them for damage caused to your property from them being negligent, but this would not be easy to do and it would mean a dispute, which is bad with the neighbours.  is it expensive to fix?

I don't think it would cost much to fix and I don't mind paying but if anything goes wrong, I worry I would be liable if anything happens to their property. I had another chat and they said we can sort something out if I find someone. Also, I would hope my insurance would cover damage IF any has been caused. I don't want any problems with neighbours and they are actually good people.

AskAsk said:

maybe post a photo so we can see what you mean exactly.

My house is on the right. My guttering is separated by a roof triange. The water to the right of the triangle goes to the downpipe on my driveway. The water to the left of the triangle should go across my neighbours house and down the pipe to the left but is getting stuck on my side. It's not very clear but the middle has been raised.

unforeseen said:

Rather than being raised in the middle, could it be the case that the rest has sagged due to poor/missing supports? 

I've been looking at old pictures on Google maps and the middle was raised when their roof was replaced about 7 years ago. This was done by the previous owners. I didn't notice the guttering next door was raised until I had a small roof leak last month and the issue was pointed out by the roofer.

Jeepers_Creepers said:

Have you had these cracks filled at any time, and - if so - have they reappeared?

No, I have not had the cracked filled. I wanted to get the cause sorted first. As water has possible been leaking for 7 years, my worry is if any damage could have occured over the years.

Jeepers_Creepers said:

How many properties make up your terrace? And where is your house in this? And the offending neighb's?

There are about 10 houses. All have shared downpipes. Due to the triangle in my roof, my water goes across to my neighbour as I have a downpipe on the other side of the triange shared with the house on the other side.

Jeepers_Creepers said:

And can you tell from looking at the terrace from the front that your neighb's gutter is 'different' in that it goes up in t'middle? 

Are there any similar terraces in the area you can compare yours to?

It's very obvious from looking that the middle had been raised as the gutter is angled down from the middle. Google maps confirms the changes. There are similar terraces and none have gutters that angle down from the middle, they are all straight.

greatcrested said:

Photo needed. but if neighbour does not care, and you do, then the cost of fixing gutters is negligible compared to the costs (financial, practical, emotional, legal) of turning this into a dispute.

I'd just get it fixed. That might mean

* adding a downpipe on your side if practical

* lowering the neighbour's gutter in the middle

* adjusting the neighbour's gutter beyond the centre - if it's dropped

* cleaning out the neighbour's downpipe (if blocked)

After discussing again, I think the neighbour would share the costs of dropping their gutter. Again, I would pay myself to stop any damage but worry about being liable for work on their property. They initially wanted me to add a 2nd downpipe, but I would have issues with drainage as I have blocked paving.

I have had really bad cracks for several years. The insurance came to have a look and said it was just normal movement. I am just concerned if 7 years of water leaking could cause foundation issues. When there is heavy rain, I can see the water flowing over the gutter and hitting the bay window.

Thanks everyone for their kind replies.

Jeepers_Creepers

Good info - thank you. 

So your 'triangle' effectively cuts the shared gutter so that it does not continue from the houses to the left of you to the houses on the right? And your D/P on the right also serves the gutter of the neighbs to your right, and not just your house?

Has your bay window protrusion always been there or was it added at a later date? If the latter, I wonder if your neighb's gutter was always meant to be higher in the middle so that it then sends water equally both ways, towards two separate D/Ps? But then the addition of your bay effectively blocked the RH path?

Anyhoo, almost certainly the solution is to level out the neighb's gutter so that it flows ever so slightly downwards towards the next D/P on the left. He shouldn't have any concerns about this as it'll mean his gutter will flow correctly too, rather than build up on its RH side. And, these gutters were always intended to be shared.

The other solution - installing a new D/P - isn't as easy as it may seem; rainwater is different to waste water and is no longer permitted to be sent down the sewage system. So you'd need to factor in the cost of a soakaway or a drain pipe to a suitable existing drainage. It's unlikely this is required, tho'.

(What a strange thing to have been done by the previous owners! What were they hoping to achieve by raising their gutter and sending half their water towards a side with no D/P?!)

AskAsk

get a reputable guttering company to look at the problem.  make sure you get a reputable one as these guys are more likely to be cowboys than other trades people.  shouldn't cost that much to repair, and if you got a decent company, it shouldn't be a problem.  if it causes problems for the neighbours then they can experience what you are going through.  they have given you permission to change/repair it, and if it doesn't work, there is the guttering company guarantee to call upon to fix it.

panyg

Thank you for your reply!

The triangle cuts my gutter. The gutter on the right side of the triange goes to my downpipe and, yes, my downpipe also serves the gutter of the house to the right. The gutter on the left side of the triangle goes to the downpipe of the house on the left. They do not have a triange so their gutter isn't seperated

No, the bay has always been there, all the houses in the row of 10 or so houses have them. Half the houses have a triangle above the bay and that is what cuts the gutter. Houses without the triangle do not have a separated gutter.

I was looking at a 2nd downpipe on my property but as you said, drainage would be an issue. I agree the best thing would be for my neighbours to drop their gutters, even if I pay myself.

Jeepers_Creepers said:

(What a strange thing to have been done by the previous owners! What were they hoping to achieve by raising their gutter and sending half their water towards a side with no D/P?!)

This is a long story! Basically, I bought the house in 2009 and about 2 years later, I had a frozen pipe burst in the loft that destroyed most of the house. When I was getting a range of quotes, my neighbours on the left recommended a builder. I checked their work and decided to give them the job. While they were working on my house, they also changed the roof of the house on the left. (I'm sure this was heavily subsidised by the huge job on my house). They changed their roof, but looking at older images on Google street view shows that they also separated the 2 roofs and raised the gutter. So the gutter has been raised and the ends that join the houses either side have a steep angle. Why would they do this? Probably due to being cowboys!

My house looked beautiful when the work was finished but within a year, huge cracks started developing. I phoned the builders and they promised to come back in 6 months once things settled to fix any issues. Then they disappeared. The neighbours who recommended them also didn't have any contact with them, even though it turns out the main guy was the neighbours childhood friend... The neighbours left a few months later. 

So I have a house full of large cracks which the insurance claim is normal movement but the cracks are getting worse. I thought maybe 7 years of overflowing gutters could have affected the structure but that seems unlikely.

Once again, thanks for your help.

Jeepers_Creepers

Thanks for the story :-)

It's good that the previous neighb has now gone. This looks like a simple solution. As AA says, get someone reputable. This will unlikely be a 'guttering guy' as no-one specialises that much, but a decent roofer/general builder will do this standing on their head (meta speaking, of course...).

Obviously it's a small job for them, so don't be surprised if you need to wait a bit while they 'fit in in in passing...'. Where are these cracks - inside or out?

Again, choose a builder through proper recommendation.

panyg

Thanks, I will get their gutter lowered!

As for the cracks, they are all inside (that I'm aware of). I have large cracks where the wall joins the ceiling in one bedroom, I have cracks along the wall and ceiling, plus cracks along the bay window in another bedroom, there are cracks along the stairs, huge cracks along the skirting board going up the stairs that continue up the wall, cracks along the wall in the kitchen, plus more along the ceiling in the hallway. Plus most of the wooden door frames in the house have cracks. Plus plenty of nail pops everywhere!

It's movement according to the loss adjuster who looked 2 years ago...

Thanks again