Underpinning - renegotiate (or run away!)

gecko_alp

DayDreamerandGeneralWaster said:

Wait to find out why it was underpinned.

If it was a collapsed drain, find out where the drains are, how often they are checked, how much to get them checked yourself, who is responsible for them.

Tree? Has it been removed? Any others that might cause issues?

Soil - would probably make me think twice. That could cause further problems. 

According to the other searches there are no drains that cross the property at all - it is well set back from the road, with gardens that wrap around the entire house - although I have no idea how far a collapsed drain would cause an issue to?

I don’t think it’s soil - we have family in the area who have never mentioned that this would be an issue. And Environmental Agency searches indicated no concerns there, going off what our solicitor has said.

I suspect it will be trees - it’s a conservation area, with many very mature trees in the gardens and surroundings. Hopefully whatever the solicitor can uncover, will indicate that it was appropriately dealt with - I hope!! 

Tippytoes

Personally, I would walk away.  Getting insurance could be difficult.  Some insurers won't even quote and others can be very expensive.  I wouldn't want the worry of not knowing if there would be issues if I decide to sell in the future.

DayDreamerandGeneralWaster

There are specialist insurers so l wouldn't be too concerned about that. If it was that long ago and there is sufficient paperwork relating to remedial works a specialist might not be needed.

Davesnave

gecko_alp said:

DayDreamerandGeneralWaster said:

Wait to find out why it was underpinned.

If it was a collapsed drain, find out where the drains are, how often they are checked, how much to get them checked yourself, who is responsible for them.

Tree? Has it been removed? Any others that might cause issues?

Soil - would probably make me think twice. That could cause further problems. 

According to the other searches there are no drains that cross the property at all  - although I have no idea how far a collapsed drain would cause an issue to?
I suspect it will be trees - it’s a conservation area, with many very mature trees in the gardens and surroundings. Hopefully whatever the solicitor can uncover, will indicate that it was appropriately dealt with - I hope!! 

There will be drains, unless the house has no water supply! Or there might be an underground watercourse, otherwise known as a spring.

Houses in the past are different from those we build now, as the foundations may be shallow. My previous 1937 house had foundations only around 25cm thick. Drains in the old days were clay and they could often leak at the joints, sometimes washing the soil away for years when they did. So it's not hard to understand that a broken drain or an occasional spring could weaken foundations over time.

But as you say, it might be soil shrinkage caused by a large tree, foundation movement caused by a large root, or heave in the ground caused by removing a tree.

None of that matters if the house hasn't moved significantly in the last 40 years. People saying you will have problems getting insurance are incorrect, but because people have prejudices like that the house may be worth a little less than one with no 'history,' even though they're similar.

My daughter's Victorian house and the one next door were affected by an underground watercourse not now visible and they needed underpinning in 1995. They're in the middle of a terrace of identical properties, but are  the strongest in the row, especially because the refurb work involved new roof timbers too. She has a normal insurance situation.

The 1980s house we rented for a while in 2009 was on a clay slope, and despite what would have been deeper modern foundations, like some others on the estate, the front part was gradually moving away from the rear aided by underground springs. We soon learned the 'S word' was not to be mentioned in polite conversation! It's not only older houses that may be affected this way.

gecko_alp

Davesnave said:

gecko_alp said:

DayDreamerandGeneralWaster said:

Wait to find out why it was underpinned.

If it was a collapsed drain, find out where the drains are, how often they are checked, how much to get them checked yourself, who is responsible for them.

Tree? Has it been removed? Any others that might cause issues?

Soil - would probably make me think twice. That could cause further problems. 

According to the other searches there are no drains that cross the property at all  - although I have no idea how far a collapsed drain would cause an issue to?
I suspect it will be trees - it’s a conservation area, with many very mature trees in the gardens and surroundings. Hopefully whatever the solicitor can uncover, will indicate that it was appropriately dealt with - I hope!! 

There will be drains, unless the house has no water supply! Or there might be an underground watercourse, otherwise known as a spring.

Houses in the past are different from those we build now, as the foundations may be shallow. My previous 1937 house had foundations only around 25cm thick. Drains in the old days were clay and they could often leak at the joints, sometimes washing the soil away for years when they did. So it's not hard to understand that a broken drain or an occasional spring could weaken foundations over time.

But as you say, it might be soil shrinkage caused by a large tree, foundation movement caused by a large root, or heave in the ground caused by removing a tree.

None of that matters if the house hasn't moved significantly in the last 40 years. People saying you will have problems getting insurance are incorrect, but because people have prejudices like that the house may be worth a little less than one with no 'history,' even though they're similar.

My daughter's Victorian house and the one next door were affected by an underground watercourse not now visible and they needed underpinning in 1995. They're in the middle of a terrace of identical properties, but are  the strongest in the row, especially because the refurb work involved new roof timbers too. She has a normal insurance situation.

The 1980s house we rented for a while in 2009 was on a clay slope, and despite what would have been deeper modern foundations, like some others on the estate, the front part was gradually moving away from the rear aided by underground springs. We soon learned the 'S word' was not to be mentioned in polite conversation! It's not only older houses that may be affected this way.

Haha, yes of course it will have drains...I didn’t think that one through! Hopefully we will be able to get a bit of insight into the reason for the underpinning and make our decision from there. As you say, if it needed doing, I’m definitely glad it has been done and know the house is more likely to be sturdier for it - I guess our main worry is the obvious stigma it comes with when it comes to reselling. 

amanda_p

We had our house underpinned 25 years ago. The movement was the result of clay soil and mature trees. Insurance is no problem, there is a £1000 excess on any further subsidence claims which there haven't been any. When the work was done we were given a certificate of competence to show that it had been completed and the house was sound.
Subsidence is relatively common and treated differently to when ours was done, the insurers were only interested if there had been any further movement over the last 5 years.

gecko_alp

So an update (finally, it feels!) We have now had a structural engineer carry out a survey on the property. The owners provided paperwork to show the company that carried the work out back in the 80's, the areas's that were underpinned, and that it appears to have been carried out to an adequate standard (signed off by building regs). He noted a couple of areas where historical external cracks have been repaired, but that there are no signs of recent movement. 

Basically, seems to be a case of the job having been done right, and no problems for 30+ years. 

My question now is - would you still renegotiate on the previous offer based on the fact that the house has a "history" which wasn't disclosed at the time of original offer? Or would you accept it and continue with the purchase as is?

Thrugelmir

gecko_alp said:

My question now is - would you still renegotiate on the previous offer based on the fact that the house has a "history" which wasn't disclosed at the time of original offer? Or would you accept it and continue with the purchase as is?

How much discount are you hoping to achieve? 

gecko_alp

Thrugelmir said:

gecko_alp said:

My question now is - would you still renegotiate on the previous offer based on the fact that the house has a "history" which wasn't disclosed at the time of original offer? Or would you accept it and continue with the purchase as is?

How much discount are you hoping to achieve? 

I'm not sure - after the initial horror of hearing "underpinning" and thinking it's worth a great deal less than our offer , I can see that the fact that it is historical and had been appropriately dealt with is all positive. However, I do struggle to think that it's worth the amount we offered, with no knowledge of the underpinning. The amount I'd really like off is less than 1.5%, but perhaps thats unfair and we should really be asking for more of a token gesture (if anything??!) 

DayDreamerandGeneralWaster

I don't know that you can get a discount, but you can ask of course.