Universal Credit - Money reduced because child in education.

sparkyuiop

I am very much hoping someone can help our family with this desperate issue.
I an 47 and my partner 36. We have three children, a son 19 and two daughters of 13 and 16.
Both my partner and I cannot work due to illness and we get DLA for our sixteen year old daughter who has mental issues.
We claim Universal credit for our whole family including our son who went straight from school to college and is now half way through a two year level three, B-Tec in I.T.
Two months ago the child element of our universal credit for him stopped. We were told this was because he was now nineteen and had to make a claim in his own right. We had our son do this the same day and his claim was processed and excepted. Universal Credit also gave him a four hundred pound advance on the money he would get each month that he could pay back in instalments. Our son was happy to pay us fifty pounds per week from his allowance to cover his costs at home and even though that meant we would only get two hundred per month and not the three hundred and seventy pounds the child element paid we could have coped and he would have had a few quid for stuff he buys from college. Actually he has a business and a maths head so would probably save it or invest it in some app script that has potential to get on to Google play or Apple's iTunes store thingy but there is only so much I understand!
None of that mattered much anyway as two days later Universal Credit called him to say that his claim had been suspended as he did not meet the requirements for him to claim it.
We have spent many weeks now talking to Universal Credit, the (wonderful) Citizens Advice Bureau and have recently made contact with our local MP for West Dorset, Mr Chris Loder. The reason we have been told from Universal Credit that he can't claim is because he is in full time education and not available to look for work, which is correct. However they stopped the child element being paid to us for him because he has reached nineteen and so many months. At his age now and because he is in college he has been told, as have we that there is no government legislation in place to support a young man in his circumstances. This is regardless of weather he is living at home or on the street according to Universal Credit. The only way he would be entitled to any help would be to drop out of school and become available for work.
Our son started this two year course when he was eighteen and not long out of school. He obsesses with numbers and machine code and runs software on his home computer that looks like something out of Star Trek. Every other week we worry with him that he won't get another distinction pass to add to the pile!
The other option we have been told is to have him apply for student finance. However it it his plan to go straight to Uni and he doesn't want to do that until then which I personally think is fair and should be his choice. College is still only a school and children still need to be supported through that part of their life if they are not available to work. They still need to be clothed and fed and kept warm and have a stable place to live. 
We do get child / housing benefit for him which will run until he is twenty. The child benefit is about twenty seven pounds per week. We would need about four times that a week in reality for it not to put us at this level of poverty. The worst thing was there was no warning, we assumed because he was getting child benefit until he was twenty and his / our circumstances had not changed the child element would also be paid until then too. We now have nine overdue payments on important things like the broadband, water, the children's mobile phones, catalogues and it's getting worse every day. I can see bailiff's next and most of what we have we are still paying for anyway. And it's Christmas soon, yipee!
But he is our son and if we can feed him and keep him warm until he is packed off to Uni then we will do that with or without government help anyway as I hope anyone else would. I do wonder if there are other nineteen year olds in this situation that have had to drop out of college to survive? This certainly seems to be happening so I'm surprised no body has picked up on it yet.
Citizen's Advice also say it is under page 64 (chapter 4) - 'responsibility for a child' and pp66 and 67 - (chapters 4 and 5 'child element') that we meet the criteria to claim the child element of UC 
Anyone with a similar story we would love to hear from you. I have heard great things about this website and often watch Martin on TV so fingers crossed someone will think of something. He isn't entitled to hard ship payment's either he asked. Maybe we should ask!
Sorry about my formatting and writing I'm not very good at writing. If a moderator wants to adjust it please feel free.
I look forward to meeting you...

KatrinaWaves

You say he went to college straight after school, but he went at 18, when a lot of children would normally be going to Uni.

Is the issue that he has already been to 'college' (I'm assuming maybe a 6th form as you refer to it as school) and is now doing additional 'college' on top of the post 16 ed he already has?

I never did Btecs but google shows that a Level 3 Btec is equivalent to 1 A Level, so is 1 A level classed as full time education? Most students tend to do 3?

calcotti

sparkyuiop said:Citizen's Advice also say it is under page 64 (chapter 4) - 'responsibility for a child' and pp66 and 67 - (chapters 4 and 5 'child element') that we meet the criteria to claim the child element of UC 

For UC a person ceases to be a child on the 1st September following their 19th birthday even if in education (this is probably on page 63 of the old copy of CPAG I think you are referring to).  The child element can no longer be included in your UC award after this.

The rules for Child Benefit are different.

Somebody in full time education cannot claim UC (except in some limited circumstances).

I think there is indeed a possible gap in provision here.

KatrinaWaves

calcotti said:

sparkyuiop said:Citizen's Advice also say it is under page 64 (chapter 4) - 'responsibility for a child' and pp66 and 67 - (chapters 4 and 5 'child element') that we meet the criteria to claim the child element of UC 

For UC a person ceases to be a child on the 1st September following their 19th birthday even if in education (this is probably on page 63 of the old copy of CPAG I think you are referring to).  The child element can no longer be included in your UC award after this.

The rules for Child Benefit are different.

Oh well much simpler than I thought!

sparkyuiop

KatrinaWaves said:

You say he went to college straight after school, but he went at 18, when a lot of children would normally be going to Uni.

Is the issue that he has already been to 'college' (I'm assuming maybe a 6th form as you refer to it as school) and is now doing additional 'college' on top of the post 16 ed he already has?

I never did Btecs but google shows that a Level 3 Btec is equivalent to 1 A Level, so is 1 A level classed as full time education? Most students tend to do 3?

Hi Katrina
He did go to college at 16 and did a level 2 Btec course. This is the next course on from that one, the level 3 Btec and with the two distinctions he is hoping to get will put him into university.
I'm not sure about the last bit what you mean but I can find out. We do know that he is actually in 'tutored time' of 12.35 hours and this is classed as full time. If that helps answer your question?
Thanks for your help.

KatrinaWaves

sparkyuiop said:

KatrinaWaves said:

You say he went to college straight after school, but he went at 18, when a lot of children would normally be going to Uni.

Is the issue that he has already been to 'college' (I'm assuming maybe a 6th form as you refer to it as school) and is now doing additional 'college' on top of the post 16 ed he already has?

I never did Btecs but google shows that a Level 3 Btec is equivalent to 1 A Level, so is 1 A level classed as full time education? Most students tend to do 3?

Hi Katrina
He did go to college at 16 and did a level 2 Btec course. This is the next course on from that one, the level 3 Btec and with the two distinctions he is hoping to get will put him into university.
I'm not sure about the last bit what you mean but I can find out. We do know that he is actually in 'tutored time' of 12.35 hours and this is classed as full time. If that helps answer your question?
Thanks for your help.

Thank you for answering but it appears my questions were irrelevant sorry!

sparkyuiop

calcotti said:

sparkyuiop said:Citizen's Advice also say it is under page 64 (chapter 4) - 'responsibility for a child' and pp66 and 67 - (chapters 4 and 5 'child element') that we meet the criteria to claim the child element of UC 

For UC a person ceases to be a child on the 1st September following their 19th birthday even if in education (this is probably on page 63 of the old copy of CPAG I think you are referring to).  The child element can no longer be included in your UC award after this.

The rules for Child Benefit are different.

Somebody in full time education cannot claim UC (except in some limited circumstances).

I think there is indeed a possible gap in provision here.

"I think there is indeed a possible gap in provision here."
I think so too. Thank you calcotti

calcotti

Further reference for you https://www.entitledto.co.uk/help/child-over-16, see the last paragraph.

calcotti

sparkyuiop said: "I think there is indeed a possible gap in provision here."

I think so too. Thank you calcotti

Have found this https://cpag.org.uk/welfare-rights/resources/test-case/universal-credit-19-year-olds-full-time-non-advanced-education. It appears that CPAG have brought a legal case to challenge this exact situation that you find yourself in. You may wish to consider the advice at the bottom of the article and decide whether to raise a Mandatory Reconsideration request although any final outcome will depend on the result of legal case.

Re your original post I regret to say that whoever read the CPAG and quoted the particular pages to you failed to fully read the context.

sparkyuiop

Thank you Calcotti. I have passed the information to my MP (Mr Chris Loder) in the hope he might be able to see what is going on. I will of course update this thread when I get more information because I can see this becoming an issue for others if it isn't already.

sparkyuiop

Hello all. I have an update.
My MP has written to a Mr Will Quince MP at the Department of Work and Pensions asking why there is no provision for students in my son's position. We await a reply.
CPAG also wrote to me updating me on the current case they are working on. Rather than explain it myself I will copy and paste it here for those interested.
I will of course continue to update this when I hear more news. But until then Merry Christmas, if you're lucky enough to afford one!

CPAG (names edited)

Dear xxx,

Thank you for contacting us about this matter. We are seeing a high number of people affected by this.

Can you please confirm whether xxx’s learning issues are a factor in him still being at school? Does he have a learning plan and, if so, when was this agreed?

As you know, we currently have a case at the First tier Tribunal looking at this issue. Unfortunately, we think that the chances of success in that case are quite low. The Department for Work and Pensions’ position is that the new system is more fair, because it gives everyone one additional year to complete their non-advanced education, rather than the support stopping at various times through the academic year, due to being linked with the young person’s birthday.

The issue with this is that it leaves young people like xxx caught between two systems – he is not classed as a child for your universal credit claim, but cannot access the student finance available to those in higher education.

You mention that you have gone through all of the appeal process. I assume that this is up to the hearing at the First tier Tribunal. There is an option of going to the Upper Tribunal, but this would require quite a compelling case.

 

There are also a few options other than the usual appeal route. They are as follows:

1.       xxx claims universal credit in his own right as a person with limited capability for work. This depends on the level of xxx’s learning difficulties, as it would require him to be entitled to personal independence payment and to be able to show that he has a limited capability for work. Due to new regulations, it is no longer possible to claim UC as a full time student until you have been found to have a limited capability for work, leaving many people in a catch 22 position. However, xxx could claim credits-only new style employment and support allowance, which will result in a work capability assessment. Once he has been found to have a limited capability for work, and has a PIP award, he will be able to claim UC in his own right.

2.       xxx claims UC by arguing that he is not “receiving education”. Receiving education is defined in the UC regulations and, where the person is not a qualifying young person, it includes any course of advanced education, any course where a maintenance grant is available, or any course that is not compatible with the person’s work related requirements under UC. xxx is in non-advanced education (sixth form or college) so would argue that his course is not incompatible with his work related requirements. The success of this argument depends on the nature of xxx’s course. It is more likely to succeed if xxx's studies are of a more vocational nature and it can be said that the course will aid him in finding employment.

 

The best route forward is therefore dependant on the severity of xxx’s difficulties and the nature of his course. Option (1) will also take longer, as it would require getting a PIP award in place.

Please let me know if I can provide further support.

 

Kind regards,

xxx.