Economy 9 and 10

hozza94

danrv said:

One problem is my storage heater is 10kw. The other is I need to get rid of it and fit more modern ones.

I assume you mean 10kWh as 10kW would be the power draw of a house with EV charging in progress! 
10kWh would be quite small and underpowered. I have an 18kWh in my living room and a 12kWh in the bedroom.

Talldave

danrv said:

Gerry1 said:

Oh dear, plenty of scope for things to be expensively wrong.  Never assume anything or rely on what you are told by someone in a call centre.  You could be being charged at peak rate for all your heating.

The Rate 1 and Rate 2 numbers on the bill are likely to be significantly different.  The figure that's closer to 33538 will probably be the one that was clocked up during the cheap rate period, but is it being billed at peak rate?  If the meter reader believes the sticky white label then it will be.

And of course, the clock drift is another joker in the pack !

Restricted Meter Good Practice Guide.pdf

On my bill, the night reading starts with ‘89’ and day one ‘36’ so I think they’re the right way round.
The photo was taken over a year ago so reading is much higher now,.

They're the wrong way around - because in that photo, the switch is in off peak mode, and the meter is on rate 2, starting 33nnn, the one charged at day rate on your bill.  So you're actually getting 10 hours of day rate and 14 hours of night rate

I wonder if you're the only E14 customer in the country?!!

MPANs have 21 digits - I just wondered if yours started 02, suppleirs might think you had an E7 setup?

danrv

hozza94 said:

I assume you mean 10kWh as 10kW would be the power draw of a house with EV charging in progress! 
10kWh would be quite small and underpowered. I have an 18kWh in my living room and a 12kWh in the bedroom.

It’s 10’000w and stores a maximum of 73kwh’s of heat. It’s not a space heater like those
you’ve shown. It sits in a central cupboard.

Gerry1

danrv said:

On my bill, the night reading starts with ‘89’ and day one ‘36’ so I think they’re the right way round.

That does suggest you're using more at night, which is encouraging, but it seems to conflict with the photograph which shows Rate 2 displayed during what the meter thinks is night time.  Best to check which register increments at the relevant times.

Does the meter display alternate between the day and night rates, i.e. would it have shown the night rate reading if you had taken the photo a few moments later?  I can't see any button to toggle the display.

danrv said:

I’m stuck paying this extortionate rate as I don’t think I can run the warm air heater on E7.

Might be worth manually switching the warm air unit so that the charge period mimics the E7 times.  You'd probably have to switch it to a 24h circuit, but that should be quite straightforward.  If you're happy with its performance you could then switch to E7 and be able to find a competitive rate from your preferred supplier.

danrv

Talldave said:.

They're the wrong way around - because in that photo, the switch is in off peak mode, and the meter is on rate 2, starting 33nnn, the one charged at day rate on your bill.  So you're actually getting 10 hours of day rate and 14 hours of night rate

I wonder if you're the only E14 customer in the country?!!

MPANs have 21 digits - I just wondered if yours started 02, suppleirs might think you had an E7 setup?

Ok, thanks. This is getting a bit confusing. How can you tell the switch is in off peak mode? Are the E10 times set at the system or by the DNO?
The off peak time should be 9pm - 7am but the timer has been through years of GMT/BST shifts and now starts at 5.10am. 

My MPAN starts with 01 and yes, on comparison site tools, it thinks I have Economy 7.
It needs resetting but not sure if this will bring the bill down. Once done, I’m still tied to E10.

Gerry1

The E10 times are set by the 'ears' marked ON and OFF.

Parallax makes it a bit unclear, but probably ON at 21:00 and OFF at 07:00.  The times are determined by the DNO.

It won't have any idea about GMT and BST, it will just carry on regardless.  The brass pointer shows what it thinks is the current time.

It tripped past the ON 'ear' at 21:00 so it's telling the meter to increment the night register.

Talldave

danrv said:

Talldave said:.

They're the wrong way around - because in that photo, the switch is in off peak mode, and the meter is on rate 2, starting 33nnn, the one charged at day rate on your bill.  So you're actually getting 10 hours of day rate and 14 hours of night rate

I wonder if you're the only E14 customer in the country?!!

MPANs have 21 digits - I just wondered if yours started 02, suppleirs might think you had an E7 setup?

Ok, thanks. This is getting a bit confusing. How can you tell the switch is in off peak mode? Are the E10 times set at the system or by the DNO?
The off peak time should be 9pm - 7am but the timer has been through years of GMT/BST shifts and now starts at 5.10am. 

My MPAN starts with 01 and yes, on comparison site tools, it thinks I have Economy 7.
It needs resetting but not sure if this will bring the bill down. Once done, I’m still tied to E10.

Because it's at 2.45am, just over half-way through the 10 hour off-peak period.

However, @Gerry1's point about the meter showing a 2 and really being in rate 2 is valid.  It would be worth doing some investigations and seeing which rate is really active (ie: which count increments as you're using power when the timeswitch is in day or off-peak mode).

If you meter is profile class 01, then that's single rate - so there must be other parameters in the meter database used to flag that you're on a cranky E10 setup.

danrv

Talldave said:

 It would be worth doing some investigations and seeing which rate is really active (ie: which count increments as you're using power when the timeswitch is in day or off-peak mode).

If you meter is profile class 01, then that's single rate - so there must be other parameters in the meter database used to flag that you're on a cranky E10 setup.

I know that rate 1 (low) increments faster when the heater takes a charge. As soon as the time switch flicks over to rate 2 mid afternoon, the charging circuit is off.
I haven’t yet checked when the off peak period starts but I think it’s very near ten hours before it ends. 
The storage heater should therefore only be charging during these time.

Not sure what’s going on with the MPAN and the digital meter. Single rate is suggested by the number but says ‘dual rate’ on the meter. 
The number actually starts with 10 not 01 as previously stated.

danrv

Gerry1 said:

Might be worth manually switching the warm air unit so that the charge period mimics the E7 times.  You'd probably have to switch it to a 24h circuit, but that should be quite straightforward.  If you're happy with its performance you could then switch to E7 and be able to find a competitive rate from your preferred supplier.

Good idea, thanks.
I don’t know how I would switch it to a 24 hr circuit  Job for the electrician maybe. There are spare fuseways in the CU and the heater is seperate with a large fused isolation switch.
In the meantime I could manually run it for seven hours during my daytime off peak time. As it’s conveniently set like this, there’s no shortage of heat at times when it’s needed.

If I move to Economy 7 with it’s regular 12-7.00am, the heater will then be charging at night and without any daytime charge. Will just have to see if it can keep the heat for longer on a shorter charge. 

Then hopefully change to Quantum heaters where I wouldn’t have to charge a whole 10kw every time I need heating.