CIFAS marker led to loss of employment

garmeg

MovingForwards said:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6213039/cifas-marker-led-to-loss-of-employment#latest

Background to the CIFAS markers here.

Link doesnt work ...

MovingForwards

@garmeg looks like the other thread has been deleted.

AskAsk

SeanG79 said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

EDIT:  Ah just read the other thread referred to above...   What is "cross firing and kiting", or is it better I don't know?  The OP admits doing it - once - whatever it is

Cross Firing/Kiting typically involves passing a series of cheques at two or more banks, using accounts that have insufficient funds. Relying on the time required for a cheque deposited at one bank to clear at another, the kiter writes cheque(s) at the first bank against an account at the other. Before that cheque clears, they then withdraw the funds from the second bank account and deposits the funds back into the first. 

But when it catches up, the result is a CIFAS marker or National Hunter record 

this sounds like a scam.

Manxman_in_exile

AskAsk said:

SeanG79 said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

EDIT:  Ah just read the other thread referred to above...   What is "cross firing and kiting", or is it better I don't know?  The OP admits doing it - once - whatever it is

Cross Firing/Kiting typically involves passing a series of cheques at two or more banks, using accounts that have insufficient funds. Relying on the time required for a cheque deposited at one bank to clear at another, the kiter writes cheque(s) at the first bank against an account at the other. Before that cheque clears, they then withdraw the funds from the second bank account and deposits the funds back into the first. 

But when it catches up, the result is a CIFAS marker or National Hunter record 

this sounds like a scam.

I'm sure it is and that's why there's a CIFAS marker.  According to Wikipedia the sort of practice outlined above is illegal in the US.

(NB - the suggestion that what the OP may have been doing was cross firing and kiting was made in the other thread on the banking board.  I read it yesterday but I think previous posters above are now saying it's been deleted.  I say "may have" as that conclusion was only based on the sketchy outline from the OP about what he had been doing.  Maybe this thread will go the same way!)

John_

mark2200 said:

AskAsk said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

mark2200 - sorry Mark, I'm a bit confused because you seem a bit confused.

You say in the opening post that "In the last month that employer has terminated my employment... ", and various posters have said that your employer can't do that without following a proper process, but that isn't what has happened is it?  Your employer has not terminated your employment have they, and they are following a process?  From the tone of that letter/email from them, your access to certain work systems seems to have been suspended and they are investigating further.  They're also giving you the chance to get the markers removed.  So you are still employed but under some sort of investigation.  Seems reasonable in the circumstances to me.

Also, and I don't want to appear unduly suspicious or be accusing you of anything, but your comment at the end of the opening post sounds a bit "unconcerned" to me.  "The other question i had was basically just wondering how/why exactly they would be considered fraud in the first place. I used money that was available to me and the address was my own legal address anyway  Just seems strange"   I don't want to sound unkind but that doesn't sound like an outright denial of the accusations to me - it sounds more as if you know what this is about and knew exactly what you were doing but don't think anything was wrong with it.  The phrase "my own legal address anyway" is not one I'd use - why qualify "my legal address", why not just say "my address"?  (I suppose if english is not your first language it may explain it).

i would be very surprised if the OP is foreign.  his speech sounds very english to me.  i talk to foreign people often and you always can tell when someone is foreign, even when their english is very good.  they just don't use certain words or phrases that someone from this country would use.

i do see your points, but the OP may be using the word legal because he is being accused of being illegal.

yeah im english. I didnt mean anything by legal, just when youre accused of being a fraudster/dodgy saying its my legal address felt like the natural thing to say.

But it was where i was living and i had multiple bills, accounts etc all there. Funnily (or annoyingly) enough the marker i have for my credit card, the address for that card on my cifas report is the exact same address the loan company said was 'inaccurate'  

Is it the place that you went home to an slept in each night, the only place that you did that?

mark2200

John_ said:

mark2200 said:

AskAsk said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

mark2200 - sorry Mark, I'm a bit confused because you seem a bit confused.

You say in the opening post that "In the last month that employer has terminated my employment... ", and various posters have said that your employer can't do that without following a proper process, but that isn't what has happened is it?  Your employer has not terminated your employment have they, and they are following a process?  From the tone of that letter/email from them, your access to certain work systems seems to have been suspended and they are investigating further.  They're also giving you the chance to get the markers removed.  So you are still employed but under some sort of investigation.  Seems reasonable in the circumstances to me.

Also, and I don't want to appear unduly suspicious or be accusing you of anything, but your comment at the end of the opening post sounds a bit "unconcerned" to me.  "The other question i had was basically just wondering how/why exactly they would be considered fraud in the first place. I used money that was available to me and the address was my own legal address anyway  Just seems strange"   I don't want to sound unkind but that doesn't sound like an outright denial of the accusations to me - it sounds more as if you know what this is about and knew exactly what you were doing but don't think anything was wrong with it.  The phrase "my own legal address anyway" is not one I'd use - why qualify "my legal address", why not just say "my address"?  (I suppose if english is not your first language it may explain it).

i would be very surprised if the OP is foreign.  his speech sounds very english to me.  i talk to foreign people often and you always can tell when someone is foreign, even when their english is very good.  they just don't use certain words or phrases that someone from this country would use.

i do see your points, but the OP may be using the word legal because he is being accused of being illegal.

yeah im english. I didnt mean anything by legal, just when youre accused of being a fraudster/dodgy saying its my legal address felt like the natural thing to say.

But it was where i was living and i had multiple bills, accounts etc all there. Funnily (or annoyingly) enough the marker i have for my credit card, the address for that card on my cifas report is the exact same address the loan company said was 'inaccurate'  

Is it the place that you went home to an slept in each night, the only place that you did that?

At the time I owned a house and a flat. My bank accounts, electoral roll etc where all registered to my house- where the application was made for. 

mark2200

Manxman_in_exile said:

AskAsk said:

SeanG79 said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

EDIT:  Ah just read the other thread referred to above...   What is "cross firing and kiting", or is it better I don't know?  The OP admits doing it - once - whatever it is

Cross Firing/Kiting typically involves passing a series of cheques at two or more banks, using accounts that have insufficient funds. Relying on the time required for a cheque deposited at one bank to clear at another, the kiter writes cheque(s) at the first bank against an account at the other. Before that cheque clears, they then withdraw the funds from the second bank account and deposits the funds back into the first. 

But when it catches up, the result is a CIFAS marker or National Hunter record 

this sounds like a scam.

I'm sure it is and that's why there's a CIFAS marker.  According to Wikipedia the sort of practice outlined above is illegal in the US.

(NB - the suggestion that what the OP may have been doing was cross firing and kiting was made in the other thread on the banking board.  I read it yesterday but I think previous posters above are now saying it's been deleted.  I say "may have" as that conclusion was only based on the sketchy outline from the OP about what he had been doing.  Maybe this thread will go the same way!)

My things were in regards to a credit card and a loan application- nothing to do with any cheques. 

Manxman_in_exile

mark2200 said:

John_ said:

mark2200 said:

AskAsk said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

mark2200 - sorry Mark, I'm a bit confused because you seem a bit confused.

You say in the opening post that "In the last month that employer has terminated my employment... ", and various posters have said that your employer can't do that without following a proper process, but that isn't what has happened is it?  Your employer has not terminated your employment have they, and they are following a process?  From the tone of that letter/email from them, your access to certain work systems seems to have been suspended and they are investigating further.  They're also giving you the chance to get the markers removed.  So you are still employed but under some sort of investigation.  Seems reasonable in the circumstances to me.

Also, and I don't want to appear unduly suspicious or be accusing you of anything, but your comment at the end of the opening post sounds a bit "unconcerned" to me.  "The other question i had was basically just wondering how/why exactly they would be considered fraud in the first place. I used money that was available to me and the address was my own legal address anyway  Just seems strange"   I don't want to sound unkind but that doesn't sound like an outright denial of the accusations to me - it sounds more as if you know what this is about and knew exactly what you were doing but don't think anything was wrong with it.  The phrase "my own legal address anyway" is not one I'd use - why qualify "my legal address", why not just say "my address"?  (I suppose if english is not your first language it may explain it).

i would be very surprised if the OP is foreign.  his speech sounds very english to me.  i talk to foreign people often and you always can tell when someone is foreign, even when their english is very good.  they just don't use certain words or phrases that someone from this country would use.

i do see your points, but the OP may be using the word legal because he is being accused of being illegal.

yeah im english. I didnt mean anything by legal, just when youre accused of being a fraudster/dodgy saying its my legal address felt like the natural thing to say.

But it was where i was living and i had multiple bills, accounts etc all there. Funnily (or annoyingly) enough the marker i have for my credit card, the address for that card on my cifas report is the exact same address the loan company said was 'inaccurate'  

Is it the place that you went home to an slept in each night, the only place that you did that?

At the time I owned a house and a flat. My bank accounts, electoral roll etc where all registered to my house- where the application was made for. 

Sorry - so after four pages we learn that you owned two different properties and that one of the CIFAS markers was associated with one of those addresses?  Is that where you lived or did you live at the other property?  Did you have any loans or credit cards etc where the applications used the other address?  If you did, the answer may be as simple as that.  Whether it would be easy to resolve or not, I don't know.

AskAsk

Manxman_in_exile said:

mark2200 said:

John_ said:

mark2200 said:

AskAsk said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

mark2200 - sorry Mark, I'm a bit confused because you seem a bit confused.

You say in the opening post that "In the last month that employer has terminated my employment... ", and various posters have said that your employer can't do that without following a proper process, but that isn't what has happened is it?  Your employer has not terminated your employment have they, and they are following a process?  From the tone of that letter/email from them, your access to certain work systems seems to have been suspended and they are investigating further.  They're also giving you the chance to get the markers removed.  So you are still employed but under some sort of investigation.  Seems reasonable in the circumstances to me.

Also, and I don't want to appear unduly suspicious or be accusing you of anything, but your comment at the end of the opening post sounds a bit "unconcerned" to me.  "The other question i had was basically just wondering how/why exactly they would be considered fraud in the first place. I used money that was available to me and the address was my own legal address anyway  Just seems strange"   I don't want to sound unkind but that doesn't sound like an outright denial of the accusations to me - it sounds more as if you know what this is about and knew exactly what you were doing but don't think anything was wrong with it.  The phrase "my own legal address anyway" is not one I'd use - why qualify "my legal address", why not just say "my address"?  (I suppose if english is not your first language it may explain it).

i would be very surprised if the OP is foreign.  his speech sounds very english to me.  i talk to foreign people often and you always can tell when someone is foreign, even when their english is very good.  they just don't use certain words or phrases that someone from this country would use.

i do see your points, but the OP may be using the word legal because he is being accused of being illegal.

yeah im english. I didnt mean anything by legal, just when youre accused of being a fraudster/dodgy saying its my legal address felt like the natural thing to say.

But it was where i was living and i had multiple bills, accounts etc all there. Funnily (or annoyingly) enough the marker i have for my credit card, the address for that card on my cifas report is the exact same address the loan company said was 'inaccurate'  

Is it the place that you went home to an slept in each night, the only place that you did that?

At the time I owned a house and a flat. My bank accounts, electoral roll etc where all registered to my house- where the application was made for. 

Sorry - so after four pages we learn that you owned two different properties and that one of the CIFAS markers was associated with one of those addresses?  Is that where you lived or did you live at the other property?  Did you have any loans or credit cards etc where the applications used the other address?  If you did, the answer may be as simple as that.  Whether it would be easy to resolve or not, I don't know.

i know some people rent out their house and still pretend to live there, paying all the bills and registering to vote etc to avoid the tax man.  but they make a slip up because the tax man can see everyone who lives there, whether they pay the bills or not, or whether they register to vote.

i am not saying this is the case, but the OP could have rented his house out while still pretending to live there and taking out credit cards and loans at that address, while living in his flat and also taking out loans and credit cards at the flat as well.

this means that when a cross reference is made, it flags up problems with fraud.

mark2200

Manxman_in_exile said:

mark2200 said:

John_ said:

mark2200 said:

AskAsk said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

mark2200 - sorry Mark, I'm a bit confused because you seem a bit confused.

You say in the opening post that "In the last month that employer has terminated my employment... ", and various posters have said that your employer can't do that without following a proper process, but that isn't what has happened is it?  Your employer has not terminated your employment have they, and they are following a process?  From the tone of that letter/email from them, your access to certain work systems seems to have been suspended and they are investigating further.  They're also giving you the chance to get the markers removed.  So you are still employed but under some sort of investigation.  Seems reasonable in the circumstances to me.

Also, and I don't want to appear unduly suspicious or be accusing you of anything, but your comment at the end of the opening post sounds a bit "unconcerned" to me.  "The other question i had was basically just wondering how/why exactly they would be considered fraud in the first place. I used money that was available to me and the address was my own legal address anyway  Just seems strange"   I don't want to sound unkind but that doesn't sound like an outright denial of the accusations to me - it sounds more as if you know what this is about and knew exactly what you were doing but don't think anything was wrong with it.  The phrase "my own legal address anyway" is not one I'd use - why qualify "my legal address", why not just say "my address"?  (I suppose if english is not your first language it may explain it).

i would be very surprised if the OP is foreign.  his speech sounds very english to me.  i talk to foreign people often and you always can tell when someone is foreign, even when their english is very good.  they just don't use certain words or phrases that someone from this country would use.

i do see your points, but the OP may be using the word legal because he is being accused of being illegal.

yeah im english. I didnt mean anything by legal, just when youre accused of being a fraudster/dodgy saying its my legal address felt like the natural thing to say.

But it was where i was living and i had multiple bills, accounts etc all there. Funnily (or annoyingly) enough the marker i have for my credit card, the address for that card on my cifas report is the exact same address the loan company said was 'inaccurate'  

Is it the place that you went home to an slept in each night, the only place that you did that?

At the time I owned a house and a flat. My bank accounts, electoral roll etc where all registered to my house- where the application was made for. 

Sorry - so after four pages we learn that you owned two different properties and that one of the CIFAS markers was associated with one of those addresses?  Is that where you lived or did you live at the other property?  Did you have any loans or credit cards etc where the applications used the other address?  If you did, the answer may be as simple as that.  Whether it would be easy to resolve or not, I don't know.

I stated in my first post that the application was made using my legal address (ie. The one I lived in, had my bank accounts with etc). The other address I technically lived in as well- but all I had there were  your standard utility bills). Any loan, credit facility of any nature were all done using my house address (the one I got the CIFAS marker on)

That's why this whole thing is so strange. It's like these companies don't even bother to check things thoroughly before placing a marker like this on someone