CIFAS marker led to loss of employment

AskAsk

mark2200 said:

They did get a bit confused because I only said I had raised cases in regards to these. I never said they were removed 'yet', unfortunately cifas allows these companies up to 6-8 weeks to even respond which is a bit crazy to me

6 to 8 weeks sounds like the usual time for most organisations to deal with enquiries.  as we are in covid 19, that may have doubled.

Manxman_in_exile

mark2200 - sorry Mark, I'm a bit confused because you seem a bit confused.

You say in the opening post that "In the last month that employer has terminated my employment... ", and various posters have said that your employer can't do that without following a proper process, but that isn't what has happened is it?  Your employer has not terminated your employment have they, and they are following a process?  From the tone of that letter/email from them, your access to certain work systems seems to have been suspended and they are investigating further.  They're also giving you the chance to get the markers removed.  So you are still employed but under some sort of investigation.  Seems reasonable in the circumstances to me.

Also, and I don't want to appear unduly suspicious or be accusing you of anything, but your comment at the end of the opening post sounds a bit "unconcerned" to me.  "The other question i had was basically just wondering how/why exactly they would be considered fraud in the first place. I used money that was available to me and the address was my own legal address anyway  Just seems strange"   I don't want to sound unkind but that doesn't sound like an outright denial of the accusations to me - it sounds more as if you know what this is about and knew exactly what you were doing but don't think anything was wrong with it.  The phrase "my own legal address anyway" is not one I'd use - why qualify "my legal address", why not just say "my address"?  (I suppose if english is not your first language it may explain it).

EDIT:  Ah just read the other thread referred to above...   What is "cross firing and kiting", or is it better I don't know?  The OP admits doing it - once - whatever it is

AskAsk

Manxman_in_exile said:

mark2200 - sorry Mark, I'm a bit confused because you seem a bit confused.

You say in the opening post that "In the last month that employer has terminated my employment... ", and various posters have said that your employer can't do that without following a proper process, but that isn't what has happened is it?  Your employer has not terminated your employment have they, and they are following a process?  From the tone of that letter/email from them, your access to certain work systems seems to have been suspended and they are investigating further.  They're also giving you the chance to get the markers removed.  So you are still employed but under some sort of investigation.  Seems reasonable in the circumstances to me.

Also, and I don't want to appear unduly suspicious or be accusing you of anything, but your comment at the end of the opening post sounds a bit "unconcerned" to me.  "The other question i had was basically just wondering how/why exactly they would be considered fraud in the first place. I used money that was available to me and the address was my own legal address anyway  Just seems strange"   I don't want to sound unkind but that doesn't sound like an outright denial of the accusations to me - it sounds more as if you know what this is about and knew exactly what you were doing but don't think anything was wrong with it.  The phrase "my own legal address anyway" is not one I'd use - why qualify "my legal address", why not just say "my address"?  (I suppose if english is not your first language it may explain it).

i would be very surprised if the OP is foreign.  his speech sounds very english to me.  i talk to foreign people often and you always can tell when someone is foreign, even when their english is very good.  they just don't use certain words or phrases that someone from this country would use.

i do see your points, but the OP may be using the word legal because he is being accused of being illegal.

mark2200

Manxman_in_exile said:

mark2200 - sorry Mark, I'm a bit confused because you seem a bit confused.

You say in the opening post that "In the last month that employer has terminated my employment... ", and various posters have said that your employer can't do that without following a proper process, but that isn't what has happened is it?  Your employer has not terminated your employment have they, and they are following a process?  From the tone of that letter/email from them, your access to certain work systems seems to have been suspended and they are investigating further.  They're also giving you the chance to get the markers removed.  So you are still employed but under some sort of investigation.  Seems reasonable in the circumstances to me.

Also, and I don't want to appear unduly suspicious or be accusing you of anything, but your comment at the end of the opening post sounds a bit "unconcerned" to me.  "The other question i had was basically just wondering how/why exactly they would be considered fraud in the first place. I used money that was available to me and the address was my own legal address anyway  Just seems strange"   I don't want to sound unkind but that doesn't sound like an outright denial of the accusations to me - it sounds more as if you know what this is about and knew exactly what you were doing but don't think anything was wrong with it.  The phrase "my own legal address anyway" is not one I'd use - why qualify "my legal address", why not just say "my address"?  (I suppose if english is not your first language it may explain it).

Well im not being paid, i cant work, and ive been removed from all of our internal systems (there is a internal directory where you can search employee names and when you search for mine it says "this person no longer works for the company". And the company has essentially said if i want to work for them i need to get all the markers removed first (as per the email i copy/pasted). You dont consider that a termination?

what part was unconcerned? ive been dealing with this issue for the past month and been making calls practically every day to try and chase/hurry things along (to no avail) so i wouldnt agree with that at all. 

Well i havent been defrauded, the card/loan application were both mine. I do completely disagree with the markers however because it was my address, and the money i used off the credit card is money that was available

Regarding the address. I lived there. had multiple bank accounts there. had credit cards there. utility bills etc, and i sold it early this year. Dont see how me adding the word legal makes any difference.

Manxman_in_exile

So far as I'm aware there is no such thing as a "legal" address.  Your address is quite simply where you live - especially when you are applying for credit.  I would simply have said "That's the address where I live".  Anything else sounds unnatural and contrived.

(I'm aware that you can also have an "address" where you can be contacted for various purposes - eg V5C for DVLA - but that's not what we are talking about here)

elsien

Terminating your contract normally involves a letter or similar telling you that your employment is ended effective from x date/immediately depending on the circumstances, giving the reason, explaining ref pay in lieu of notice etc. 
Not being paid or being removed from the system doesn't mean you are no longer formally employed. While it is normal to be paid while suspended, some contracts do have a clause stating that you won't be. Removal from the system is a precaution while any investigation/decision is ongoing. 
So what do your manager/HR or both say about your current employment status? Ask them to clarify in writing if you need to.  That email says they will give the information to your employer. It is your employer who decides what happens next. 

mark2200

AskAsk said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

mark2200 - sorry Mark, I'm a bit confused because you seem a bit confused.

You say in the opening post that "In the last month that employer has terminated my employment... ", and various posters have said that your employer can't do that without following a proper process, but that isn't what has happened is it?  Your employer has not terminated your employment have they, and they are following a process?  From the tone of that letter/email from them, your access to certain work systems seems to have been suspended and they are investigating further.  They're also giving you the chance to get the markers removed.  So you are still employed but under some sort of investigation.  Seems reasonable in the circumstances to me.

Also, and I don't want to appear unduly suspicious or be accusing you of anything, but your comment at the end of the opening post sounds a bit "unconcerned" to me.  "The other question i had was basically just wondering how/why exactly they would be considered fraud in the first place. I used money that was available to me and the address was my own legal address anyway  Just seems strange"   I don't want to sound unkind but that doesn't sound like an outright denial of the accusations to me - it sounds more as if you know what this is about and knew exactly what you were doing but don't think anything was wrong with it.  The phrase "my own legal address anyway" is not one I'd use - why qualify "my legal address", why not just say "my address"?  (I suppose if english is not your first language it may explain it).

i would be very surprised if the OP is foreign.  his speech sounds very english to me.  i talk to foreign people often and you always can tell when someone is foreign, even when their english is very good.  they just don't use certain words or phrases that someone from this country would use.

i do see your points, but the OP may be using the word legal because he is being accused of being illegal.

yeah im english. I didnt mean anything by legal, just when youre accused of being a fraudster/dodgy saying its my legal address felt like the natural thing to say.

But it was where i was living and i had multiple bills, accounts etc all there. Funnily (or annoyingly) enough the marker i have for my credit card, the address for that card on my cifas report is the exact same address the loan company said was 'inaccurate'  

Manxman_in_exile

mark2200 said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

mark2200 - sorry Mark, I'm a bit confused because you seem a bit confused.

You say in the opening post that "In the last month that employer has terminated my employment... ", and various posters have said that your employer can't do that without following a proper process, but that isn't what has happened is it?  Your employer has not terminated your employment have they, and they are following a process?  From the tone of that letter/email from them, your access to certain work systems seems to have been suspended and they are investigating further.  They're also giving you the chance to get the markers removed.  So you are still employed but under some sort of investigation.  Seems reasonable in the circumstances to me.

Also, and I don't want to appear unduly suspicious or be accusing you of anything, but your comment at the end of the opening post sounds a bit "unconcerned" to me.  "The other question i had was basically just wondering how/why exactly they would be considered fraud in the first place. I used money that was available to me and the address was my own legal address anyway  Just seems strange"   I don't want to sound unkind but that doesn't sound like an outright denial of the accusations to me - it sounds more as if you know what this is about and knew exactly what you were doing but don't think anything was wrong with it.  The phrase "my own legal address anyway" is not one I'd use - why qualify "my legal address", why not just say "my address"?  (I suppose if english is not your first language it may explain it).

Well im not being paid, i cant work, and ive been removed from all of our internal systems (there is a internal directory where you can search employee names and when you search for mine it says "this person no longer works for the company". And the company has essentially said if i want to work for them i need to get all the markers removed first (as per the email i copy/pasted). You dont consider that a termination?

No I wouldn't - not unless they've also told me I've been sacked.  As Elsien says, your employer needs to tell you that they've sacked you.  Have they told you that?  Have you asked them?  What you are saying makes no sense - which makes me wonder about the rest of what you are telling us.

mark2200 said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

mark2200 - sorry Mark, I'm a bit confused because you seem a bit confused.

You say in the opening post that "In the last month that employer has terminated my employment... ", and various posters have said that your employer can't do that without following a proper process, but that isn't what has happened is it?  Your employer has not terminated your employment have they, and they are following a process?  From the tone of that letter/email from them, your access to certain work systems seems to have been suspended and they are investigating further.  They're also giving you the chance to get the markers removed.  So you are still employed but under some sort of investigation.  Seems reasonable in the circumstances to me.

Also, and I don't want to appear unduly suspicious or be accusing you of anything, but your comment at the end of the opening post sounds a bit "unconcerned" to me.  "The other question i had was basically just wondering how/why exactly they would be considered fraud in the first place. I used money that was available to me and the address was my own legal address anyway  Just seems strange"   I don't want to sound unkind but that doesn't sound like an outright denial of the accusations to me - it sounds more as if you know what this is about and knew exactly what you were doing but don't think anything was wrong with it.  The phrase "my own legal address anyway" is not one I'd use - why qualify "my legal address", why not just say "my address"?  (I suppose if english is not your first language it may explain it).

Well i havent been defrauded, the card/loan application were both mine.

Sorry but it was the use of some odd phrases that made me think your first language might not be english.  eg the CIFAS marker isn't suggesting that you have been defrauded, it is suggesting you may have attempted fraud.  whether that's true or not we don't know.

mark2200 said:

I do completely disagree with the markers however because it was my address, and the money i used off the credit card is money that was available

Regarding the address. I lived there. had multiple bank accounts there. had credit cards there. utility bills etc, and i sold it early this year. Dont see how me adding the word legal makes any difference.

Forgive me, but some people might take the view that "... money that was available" is not as strong as saying categorically that you know you have done nothing wrong.

Sounds like the address issue should be straightforward to get rectified, but I'm at a loss to understand why the institution you were applying to thought there were sufficient grounds to suspect fraud.  Was it the same address as used in connection with the money that was available? 

SeanG79

Manxman_in_exile said:

EDIT:  Ah just read the other thread referred to above...   What is "cross firing and kiting", or is it better I don't know?  The OP admits doing it - once - whatever it is

Cross Firing/Kiting typically involves passing a series of cheques at two or more banks, using accounts that have insufficient funds. Relying on the time required for a cheque deposited at one bank to clear at another, the kiter writes cheque(s) at the first bank against an account at the other. Before that cheque clears, they then withdraw the funds from the second bank account and deposits the funds back into the first. 

But when it catches up, the result is a CIFAS marker or National Hunter record 

macman

Sounds as if you have been suspended without pay. Which, though very serious, is not termination. Because they have said that you can return to work if you get the CIFAS markers removed.