CIFAS marker led to loss of employment

mark2200

AskAsk said:

mark2200 said:

AskAsk said:

mark2200 said:

AskAsk said:

yes they can.  employers can terminate your employment on all sorts of stuff, criminal proceedings, bankruptcy, credit check failure.

Surely they need to at least ask you to explain yourself first though? 
If I had criminal convictions then ofcourse and it's fair enough to terminate the employment, but for this they just point blank essentially said remove the markers or you can't work here. 

These markers were from over 2 years ago too

explanation is not their concern, having an employee with those markers is.  the onus is on you to get them removed if they are incorrectly put there, not your employer trying to justify why they still need to employ you.  if they are wrong then they will get removed and you can stay employed.

The employer found out about the markers in late July. Then told my manager to ask me to train someone as a backup due to COVID, then only took away my access in early October. 

So surely it wasn't that much of a big deal to them to leave me active and able to do anything on the systems for months?  

it doesn't matter as they have decided that now is the time to get rid of you and unless you can get those markers removed they will have the right to do so.  if the markers are wrong, they should have been removed by now as how long have you known about them?  even before July?  if you can not get them removed then you don't have a leg to stand on.

I only found out about them 2 weeks ago as it took cifas 2 weeks to send me the report. I've since contacted the companies in regards to them but CIFAS allows these companies 6-8 weeks to respond so I'm just waiting as of now. 

Ed-1

Jsacker said:

1. Did you have the CIFAS markers 10 years ago and, if so, what did you tell them/what did they ask in relation to it when initially applying?

CIFAS data is held for 6 years (in line with DPA).

AskAsk

mark2200 said:

AskAsk said:

mark2200 said:

AskAsk said:

mark2200 said:

AskAsk said:

yes they can.  employers can terminate your employment on all sorts of stuff, criminal proceedings, bankruptcy, credit check failure.

Surely they need to at least ask you to explain yourself first though? 
If I had criminal convictions then ofcourse and it's fair enough to terminate the employment, but for this they just point blank essentially said remove the markers or you can't work here. 

These markers were from over 2 years ago too

explanation is not their concern, having an employee with those markers is.  the onus is on you to get them removed if they are incorrectly put there, not your employer trying to justify why they still need to employ you.  if they are wrong then they will get removed and you can stay employed.

The employer found out about the markers in late July. Then told my manager to ask me to train someone as a backup due to COVID, then only took away my access in early October. 

So surely it wasn't that much of a big deal to them to leave me active and able to do anything on the systems for months?  

it doesn't matter as they have decided that now is the time to get rid of you and unless you can get those markers removed they will have the right to do so.  if the markers are wrong, they should have been removed by now as how long have you known about them?  even before July?  if you can not get them removed then you don't have a leg to stand on.

I only found out about them 2 weeks ago as it took cifas 2 weeks to send me the report. I've since contacted the companies in regards to them but CIFAS allows these companies 6-8 weeks to respond so I'm just waiting as of now. 

once you have been able to get the markers removed you will have the right to return to work, so if you are certain that those markers can be removed then you have nothing to worry about.

Ed-1

mark2200 said:
Surely they need to at least ask you to explain yourself first though? 

If I had criminal convictions then ofcourse and it's fair enough to terminate the employment, but for this they just point blank essentially said remove the markers or you can't work here. 

These markers were from over 2 years ago too

CIFAS is a database of evidenced-based fraud cases. Having yourself on the database under these case types is demonstrating to anyone that checks the database that you have been involved in fraud in the past. Employers don't like their employees to be fraudsters!

CIFAS have a dispute process which you should follow. But having 1 case on there is bad enough and hard enough to fight, let alone 2.

AskAsk

Ed-1 said:

mark2200 said:
Surely they need to at least ask you to explain yourself first though? 

If I had criminal convictions then ofcourse and it's fair enough to terminate the employment, but for this they just point blank essentially said remove the markers or you can't work here. 

These markers were from over 2 years ago too

CIFAS is a database of evidenced-based fraud cases. Having yourself on the database under these case types is demonstrating to anyone that checks the database that you have been involved in fraud in the past. Employers don't like their employees to be fraudsters!

CIFAS have a dispute process which you should follow. But having 1 case on there is bad enough and hard enough to fight, let alone 2.

yes, doesn't sound like the sort of database you make your way onto without having done something serious.

employers can sack employees for failing a credit check test let alone for comitting fraud!

AskAsk

Jsacker said:

Ed-1 said:

Jsacker said:

1. Did you have the CIFAS markers 10 years ago and, if so, what did you tell them/what did they ask in relation to it when initially applying?

CIFAS data is held for 6 years (in line with DPA).

True true, was just wondering if the employer checked 10 years ago...

that has no relevance.  the fact of the matter is that they have checked now.  the OP states the markers only got recorded in 2018 so it wouldn't have been there 10 years ago if the employer had checked then.  companies can change their employee vetting procedures over time and they don't always do checks every year, they can do a sweep check on all employees at timed intervals.

elsien

AskAsk said:

Ed-1 said:

mark2200 said:
Surely they need to at least ask you to explain yourself first though? 

If I had criminal convictions then ofcourse and it's fair enough to terminate the employment, but for this they just point blank essentially said remove the markers or you can't work here. 

These markers were from over 2 years ago too

CIFAS is a database of evidenced-based fraud cases. Having yourself on the database under these case types is demonstrating to anyone that checks the database that you have been involved in fraud in the past. Employers don't like their employees to be fraudsters!

CIFAS have a dispute process which you should follow. But having 1 case on there is bad enough and hard enough to fight, let alone 2.

yes, doesn't sound like the sort of database you make your way onto without having done something serious.

employers can sack employees for failing a credit check test let alone for comitting fraud!

But they can't just terminate employment when the employee has been there for 10 years. They have to follow the disciplinary process. 
OP, you're saying you can't access the system at present. Are you still being paid, are you suspended, what has your boss said about what will happen next if the marker's aren't removed?
If you're in a union now would be a really good time to contact them. 

mark2200

elsien said:

AskAsk said:

Ed-1 said:

mark2200 said:
Surely they need to at least ask you to explain yourself first though? 

If I had criminal convictions then ofcourse and it's fair enough to terminate the employment, but for this they just point blank essentially said remove the markers or you can't work here. 

These markers were from over 2 years ago too

CIFAS is a database of evidenced-based fraud cases. Having yourself on the database under these case types is demonstrating to anyone that checks the database that you have been involved in fraud in the past. Employers don't like their employees to be fraudsters!

CIFAS have a dispute process which you should follow. But having 1 case on there is bad enough and hard enough to fight, let alone 2.

yes, doesn't sound like the sort of database you make your way onto without having done something serious.

employers can sack employees for failing a credit check test let alone for comitting fraud!

But they can't just terminate employment when the employee has been there for 10 years. They have to follow the disciplinary process. 
OP, you're saying you can't access the system at present. Are you still being paid, are you suspended, what has your boss said about what will happen next if the marker's aren't removed?
If you're in a union now would be a really good time to contact them. 

I did get paid my daily rate for the first couple of days of October (when we were just finding the details out). But won't be getting paid again (apart from past commission I am owed) as I can't work anymore without this access being granted. This was the last email I received from the security team;

Dear Mr ---

 

I write to update you on the Security Team’s investigation into the information that you recently provided us in relation to the CIFAS markers against your name.

 

We have conducted a further investigation with the assistance of CIFAS to try and corroborate the information that you provided.  CFIAS confirmed that the institutions in question have initiated the reviews of your case by their internal audit teams.  However, contrary to the information that you provided, we understand from CIFAS that, to date, the 2 CIFAS markers remain in place. 

 

In circumstances where there remain fraud markers against your name on the CIFAS database, we cannot re-instate your access to a system that allows you to view confidential customer information.  

 

To the extent that you are able to provide evidence that the fraud markers have or will be removed, we will consider that.  Such evidence would need to be, for example, a letter from the institution in question, which we could then follow up with.  For avoidance of doubt, we are unable to authenticate recorded telephone calls.

 

Turning now to your questions:

 

1. The Fast Termination Process does not refer to the speed at which access is suspended following an investigation but rather the simultaneous actions by the relevant Security teams across the business once the instruction is received.

 

1. As regards the information contained in the Investigation Report,  we look at all the information available to come to its decisions.  That said, in your case, the existence of the CIFAS markers were the key consideration. 

 

Next steps:

 

We will now hand over our recommendations to ---, who is the liaison for your employer.  --- will inform your employer that the security team has conducted a further investigation and has recommended that your access to the system  is not reinstated.

mark2200

They did get a bit confused because I only said I had raised cases in regards to these. I never said they were removed 'yet', unfortunately cifas allows these companies up to 6-8 weeks to even respond which is a bit crazy to me

MovingForwards

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6213039/cifas-marker-led-to-loss-of-employment#latest

Background to the CIFAS markers here.