DWP Paying me erroniously

John72Oliver

The DWP are paying two payments a week into my bank account. I'm not entitled to anything from them and they don't owe me money. I phoned them and they kept me on the line for an hour while they checked that I'm not entitled to anything but they had no record of paying me and couldn't trace the payments to me even though the payments have reference numbers on them. They ended up telling me that I'd have to pay them back and that they would patch me through to someone to arrange that. Then they cut me off. I wrote to them, being as calling them didn't help, that was a year ago now and I've had no reply.

Had that call transfer gone through there still would have been problems. These are weekly payments so were they expecting me to phone them every week to pay them back (rhetorical)?  If I had paid them, would I be able to prove that the payment was to settle this particular issue if they themselves couldn't find the payments that they are making to me (again rhetorical)? So unless those questions could have been satisfied I would have refused to pay them.

This is not my money and I don't want it but I also don't see this as my problem. When I get money from them I put it into a separate account so that I don't accidentally spend it but I don't think that I should have to worry about this. Moreover, if I've made any mistakes and they do come looking for their money I don't want to get into trouble if I don't have enough to pay them back. If I died tomorrow my beneficiaries have the mindset to just spend the money with two fingers up to the DWP and I don't want them to get into trouble like that either (regardless of the politics).

Has anyone got ANY advice please? How can I stop this? How can I keep myself financially safe if I do stop it and don't have all of the money to pay them back? Am I committing fraud just by receiving this money? Any advice will help.

poppy12345

This sounds very strange. What benefits are they from? has this been happening for a year? are you sure you haven't applied for any benefits yourself or someone on your behalf?

oh_really

I think if you've taken resonably practicable steps to resolve the situation and can demonstrate you've been in contact to draw matters to a close, its dificult to see how an accusation of fraud can be taken seriously. I would continue as is and carry on with life without further concern.

Are we talking significant sums?

John72Oliver

I definitely have not applied for any benefits for myself or anybody else. 
When I spoke with DWP they said that the reference numbers indicated that the payments are for a pension.
I have a little over £10k in the account that their money gets stowed in.

Alice_Holt

Write again, keep a copy and cc your MP.
Reference the dates when you contacted them previously, and the DWP responses you had.

You may wish to request a Subject Access request under GDPR -
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/request-your-personal-information-from-the-department-for-work-and-pensions

Some info on the DWP recovering over-payments due to official error:
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/911407/benefit-overpayment-recovery-guide.pdf
See para 1.25

TELLIT01

Contacting your MP is definitely the route to take now.  My guess would be that it is being paid into the wrong account, probably due to a single wrong digit being entered.  You are obviously doing the right thing by simply setting the money aside.  A potential problem is going to be how DWP can arrange repayment of a sum they seem incapable of identifying a source for.

John72Oliver

I never thought of contacting my MP. Thanks for that and thanks for the links, that's excellent.

born_again

Alice_Holt said:

You may wish to request a Subject Access request under GDPR -
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/request-your-personal-information-from-the-department-for-work-and-pensions

I think a issue here will be that as the OP has no account with the DWP that there is no information to be supplied.

As someone else said, odd's on someone has supplied the wrong account details. But you would expect the reference no to mean something to the DWP.
Although checking mine, it is different for each payment. 

John72Oliver

Reading through the Benefit Overpayment Recovery Guide I saw this:

Official Error 1.25 This is usually an overpayment caused by an error or omission by an officer of the Department for Work and Pensions, or another government agency or department. However, these overpayments (or part of them), that fall to be determined under S71 of the Social Security Administration Act 1992, are routinely classified as Official Error, where the overpayment (or part of it) is not as a result of a failure to disclose or misrepresentation by the claimant but is as a result of an error arising under an award of benefit. Such overpayments are not recoverable under social security legislation. In December 2010 the Supreme Court1 held that for any payments made as part of an award of benefit, the social security framework provided the only powers of recovery and these official error overpayments where the error arose under an award of benefit are therefore written off without any recovery action being taken as they cannot be recovered by common law principles as the payment is made within a valid benefit award.

Which suggests that they have no legal power to recover the money. Don't get me wrong, this is tax payer money and I want it to be in the hands of the rightful owner but if I'm understanding it correctly it means that I'm at least safe from them if they come after me agressively.

The reference numbers that show on my payments are different every time but I would still expect them to be linked to a recipient within their system. I work with data and although the civil service is 'different' to everybody else I've never known anyone create a system which generates references without reason.

Alice_Holt

born_again said:

Alice_Holt said:

You may wish to request a Subject Access request under GDPR -
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/request-your-personal-information-from-the-department-for-work-and-pensions

I think a issue here will be that as the OP has no account with the DWP that there is no information to be supplied.

      I think it possible that a personal data record would have been created of the OP's contact with the DWP in his efforts to ask the DWP to stop paying these amounts.   If the OP hasn't got a copy of the correspondence he sent previously, then this information may be useful to him, depending on the DWP's response and the DWP guidance in para 1.25.



     "Which suggests that they have no legal power to recover the money. Don't get me wrong, this is tax payer money and I want it to be in the hands of the rightful owner but if I'm understanding it correctly it means that I'm at least safe from them if they come after me aggressively."
   One would hope so. 
   There is also a para about incorrect DD's in that DWP document, which may be worth reading. 
However, given that you notified the DWP of these payments - then from that date, any error (IMO) would move to official error. The DWP should have then acted on the information you supplied, rather than just continuing payments. Not taking responsible action represents (to my mind) clear official error. 

Re being paid to the wrong bank account - I think It would be strange if someone who was due DWP pension payments, but did not receive them - failed to raise this with the DWP.  Especially over such a long time period, and given they would have received letters from the DWP about their pension payments.

As a very cheeky aside - if an element does prove unrecoverable - you may decide to donate this to local charities (those which it could be argued may doing work in the their community, that one might expect taxpayer funded government organisations to pick up).  I have in mind food banks /  advice charities / etc.     
(But then I'm biased, having volunteered at my local Citizens Advice !! )   

    

tomtom256

The fraud element is retaining a wrongful, however as long as you have taken steps to stop it happeneing and have a records, there should be no legal comeback, as they woudl need to prove a dishonest intent.

In respect of official error overpayment, as the OP has no benefit claim and as the payment has not been made as part of a valid benefit claim, it could be recovered. The key point is you have to be the legitimate claimant and have recieved it as part of a valid benefit claim. The OP doesn't fit either criteria.