New build service charges and possessory title

davidmcn

AdrianC said:

skm1981 said:

This was what I thought, it's fair enough having to pay a service charge for maintenance of the area, but I'll still be paying full council tax.  I just don't think this property is going to be for us.

Of course you'll be paying council tax. Your council tax pays towards the things the local authority in your area do maintain. You cannot pick-and-choose which bits apply to you.

"My house hasn't caught fire, so I don't want to pay for the fire brigade. I don't have kids, so I don't want to pay towards the education authority. My granny's already dead, so I don't want to pay towards adult social care."

And even if you thought it was a charge for your use of publicly-maintained roads - don't you use any of them? If not, check the title conditions to see whether you're allowed to park your helicopter. 

skm1981

RelievedSheff said:

skm1981 said:

This was what I thought, it's fair enough having to pay a service charge for maintenance of the area, but I'll still be paying full council tax.  I just don't think this property is going to be for us.

The estate management charges are nothing to do with your council tax. Council tax pays for council provided services in your local area. Estate charges pay for the maintenance of your housing estate areas which are private to your estate. The two are completely separate entities!!

Yeah I get this, but where I live now - and I assume most places - it also pays for road repairs/maintenance, the bin men (although I assume that we would still get that service).  I would be paying full council tax but not receiving the full benefits from it is what I'm guessing.

skm1981

davidmcn said:

AdrianC said:

skm1981 said:

This was what I thought, it's fair enough having to pay a service charge for maintenance of the area, but I'll still be paying full council tax.  I just don't think this property is going to be for us.

Of course you'll be paying council tax. Your council tax pays towards the things the local authority in your area do maintain. You cannot pick-and-choose which bits apply to you.

"My house hasn't caught fire, so I don't want to pay for the fire brigade. I don't have kids, so I don't want to pay towards the education authority. My granny's already dead, so I don't want to pay towards adult social care."

And even if you thought it was a charge for your use of publicly-maintained roads - don't you use any of them? If not, check the title conditions to see whether you're allowed to park your helicopter. 

Good point, I forgot about my helicopter.  I assumed I'd be able to park that outside the house.

eidand

wait, let me get this right ....

1. someone has the right to come into your property
2. you have to pay someone for their permission to have a shed in your own garden.

I don't know what you're buying but that is not a freehold property.
I am sure someone will be along telling you this is all normal, but, sorry, no, this is most definitely not normal and not acceptable. I'd buy an actual freehold instead not a fake one.

princeofpounds

RelievedSheff said:
Fleecehold is nothing to do with management charges.

Fleecehold relates to leasehold properties.

Once again the two have been completely mixed up.

Well, each to their own when it comes to the definition of words - this is not the Academie Francaise - but the top three results in google all refer to it as a problem applying freehold tenure.

 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-46279048
https://estateagentnetworking.co.uk/what-does-the-term-fleecehold-mean/
https://www.leaseholdknowledge.com/developers-can-now-seize-freehold-homes-reports-bbc-r4-moneybox-in-shocking-expose-of-fleecehold/

So does the 'featured snippet' on define: fleecehold.

https://estateagentnetworking.co.uk/what-does-the-term-fleecehold-mean/#:~:text=Freehold means that you own,one is the Fleecehold agreement.

So the collective wisdom of the interweb begs to differ. Yes, 'fleece' rhymes with lease. But it also begins with F and has the 'ee' sound. 

To be honest, I think it's an appropriate word for any situation where the form of tenure is being exploited, leasehold or freehold.

RelievedSheff

skm1981 said:

RelievedSheff said:

skm1981 said:

This was what I thought, it's fair enough having to pay a service charge for maintenance of the area, but I'll still be paying full council tax.  I just don't think this property is going to be for us.

The estate management charges are nothing to do with your council tax. Council tax pays for council provided services in your local area. Estate charges pay for the maintenance of your housing estate areas which are private to your estate. The two are completely separate entities!!

Yeah I get this, but where I live now - and I assume most places - it also pays for road repairs/maintenance, the bin men (although I assume that we would still get that service).  I would be paying full council tax but not receiving the full benefits from it is what I'm guessing.

You would get exactly the same benefits from paying your council tax as everyone else in your local authority.

Your estate charges pay for the upkeep of your housing estate.

scottishblondie

skm1981 said:

RelievedSheff said:

skm1981 said:

This was what I thought, it's fair enough having to pay a service charge for maintenance of the area, but I'll still be paying full council tax.  I just don't think this property is going to be for us.

The estate management charges are nothing to do with your council tax. Council tax pays for council provided services in your local area. Estate charges pay for the maintenance of your housing estate areas which are private to your estate. The two are completely separate entities!!

Yeah I get this, but where I live now - and I assume most places - it also pays for road repairs/maintenance, the bin men (although I assume that we would still get that service).  I would be paying full council tax but not receiving the full benefits from it is what I'm guessing.

You council tax will still pay for the roads (assuming they've been adopted of course) and the bin men in the estate as well as all the rest of the local area.  But the council can't afford to take on the upkeep of areas in new build estates such as green spaces, play parks etc.  That is what your service charge will pay for.

In our previous house there was a large green open space, plus a lot of grass verges, beds of shrubs and small trees, brick walls that marked the estate boundary etc.  We paid £12 a month towards the upkeep of these areas, so basically paying for gardeners and any maintenance on walls and fences that didn't belong to individual properties.  The council still maintained the roads, pavements, street lighting, sent round the bin men etc.

RelievedSheff

eidand said:

wait, let me get this right ....

1. someone has the right to come into your property
2. you have to pay someone for their permission to have a shed in your own garden.

I don't know what you're buying but that is not a freehold property.
I am sure someone will be along telling you this is all normal, but, sorry, no, this is most definitely not normal and not acceptable. I'd buy an actual freehold instead not a fake one.

Our previous 1930's Freehold property had a list of covenants and restrictions. It is certainly nothing new.

RelievedSheff

princeofpounds said:

RelievedSheff said:
Fleecehold is nothing to do with management charges.

Fleecehold relates to leasehold properties.

Once again the two have been completely mixed up.

Well, each to their own when it comes to the definition of words - this is not the Academie Francaise - but the top three results in google all refer to it as a problem applying freehold tenure.

 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-46279048
https://estateagentnetworking.co.uk/what-does-the-term-fleecehold-mean/
https://www.leaseholdknowledge.com/developers-can-now-seize-freehold-homes-reports-bbc-r4-moneybox-in-shocking-expose-of-fleecehold/

So does the 'featured snippet' on define: fleecehold.

https://estateagentnetworking.co.uk/what-does-the-term-fleecehold-mean/#:~:text=Freehold means that you own,one is the Fleecehold agreement.

So the collective wisdom of the interweb begs to differ. Yes, 'fleece' rhymes with lease. But it also begins with F and has the 'ee' sound. 

To be honest, I think it's an appropriate word for any situation where the form of tenure is being exploited, leasehold or freehold.

Even the articles can't get it right. A small snippet from one:

"Sometimes though there are alternatives and one is the Fleecehold agreement. This is when you a contract states that you have to pay annual fees (commonly referred to as ‘estate fees’) on the land you own, so though you might have the freehold agreement you are also obliged to pay a third party additional monthly / annual fees"

Estate management charges are not fees on the land that you own. They are fees to maintain the public shared spaces and green areas. They are NOT a charge on the Freehold land that the property owner has purchased. They ARE a charge to maintain public spaces within the development.

If you are going to post links to articles at least make them ones that are accurate!!

Titus_Wadd

Now would be the time to rethink; we have lived under the strange regime of our site's developers for 2 years and it's not been easy.  We weighed up the pros and cons when we purchased and got a good deal because our vendors were desperate to move.  But it's not for everyone.