Parking at rear of house in garages

jimmy_boy81

Hi all - I hope this is the right thread.
My property has a rear gate which accesses council garages. Weve been parking at the back gate with no problems for a year. The council began some renovation works in these garages which were stopped due to coronavirus.
I contacted the council to ask when they would begin works and in their reply they advised they didn't have noted that I had "right of access across the forecourt nor to park behind your back gate"
What does this mean? I've just cannot find anything on Google which might assist so hoped someone on here might be able to assist 

Ditzy_Mitzy

It means that you don't own the forecourt in front of the garages.  It also means that the forecourt's owner hasn't given you permission to park cars on it.  You have, I assume, the use of one of the garages in the block and are, of course, allowed to park a car in it.  You have a right to drive a car across the forecourt for the purposes of putting it in, or getting it out of, the garage.  In summary: you can park in the garage but not outside it.  In addition: nobody else is allowed to park in the forecourt and/or block vehicular access to the garages.  

knightstyle

First find out who exactly owns the access drive and the bit you park on. Then check your land registry and purchase documents to see if you have a right of way to your back garden, if you do what exactly does it say?
If you have nothing in writing it may depend on how long you and previous owners have been doing this.

jimmy_boy81

Ditzy_Mitzy said:

It means that you don't own the forecourt in front of the garages.  It also means that the forecourt's owner hasn't given you permission to park cars on it.  You have, I assume, the use of one of the garages in the block and are, of course, allowed to park a car in it.  You have a right to drive a car across the forecourt for the purposes of putting it in, or getting it out of, the garage.  In summary: you can park in the garage but not outside it.  In addition: nobody else is allowed to park in the forecourt and/or block vehicular access to the garages.  

Thanks for the reply- we dont have a garage in this block as far as I know. The way the garages are positioned meant that there was enough room for our car to park without impacting on access to any other garages. Not sure if that makes any difference to your reply?

jimmy_boy81

knightstyle said:

First find out who exactly owns the access drive and the bit you park on. Then check your land registry and purchase documents to see if you have a right of way to your back garden, if you do what exactly does it say?
If you have nothing in writing it may depend on how long you and previous owners have been doing this.

So previous owners didn't have a gate, we installed it ourselves. The people who are undertaking the renovation advised me off the record that I didnt need to apply for access but were selling our house and have had a few queries about the access - we have said its an unofficial space and we park there at our own risk 

Ditzy_Mitzy

Sorry @jimmy_boy81, I misread your original comment.  What it actually means is that your property has no rights over the garages or forecourt area.  Your boundary ends with your fence and everything beyond it is someone else's land.  The forecourt is there for the benefit of those houses associated with the garages only.  It's a similar situation to my own house, which backs on to a church car park.  I have no rights to use the church car park or drive across it, even though I could put a gate in my back fence and walk straight through to it.  
Your own gate is immaterial.  There's nothing to stop you having it, but without a right of access there's also nothing to stop the car park's owner building a wall directly behind your fence and stopping up the way through.  The fact that nobody who uses the garages cares that you park there is also immaterial.  It reduces the chances of any friction, thus lessening the likelihood of the landowner finding out, but it doesn't matter legally.  As you said, this is all done at your own risk.  Unfortunately it now seems that the landowner has got wind of it and may start taking action.  Exactly what action, I don't know.  You may never hear anything ever again but it would probably be sensible to keep the car out of the way whilst the workmen are about.  

jimmy_boy81

Ditzy_Mitzy said:

Sorry @jimmy_boy81, I misread your original comment.  What it actually means is that your property has no rights over the garages or forecourt area.  Your boundary ends with your fence and everything beyond it is someone else's land.  The forecourt is there for the benefit of those houses associated with the garages only.  It's a similar situation to my own house, which backs on to a church car park.  I have no rights to use the church car park or drive across it, even though I could put a gate in my back fence and walk straight through to it.  
Your own gate is immaterial.  There's nothing to stop you having it, but without a right of access there's also nothing to stop the car park's owner building a wall directly behind your fence and stopping up the way through.  The fact that nobody who uses the garages cares that you park there is also immaterial.  It reduces the chances of any friction, thus lessening the likelihood of the landowner finding out, but it doesn't matter legally.  As you said, this is all done at your own risk.  Unfortunately it now seems that the landowner has got wind of it and may start taking action.  Exactly what action, I don't know.  You may never hear anything ever again but it would probably be sensible to keep the car out of the way whilst the workmen are about.  

Thanks again for your reply. Were selling our house and advised it has rear access (not rear parking) and we're getting a lot of questions about right of access. I've contacted our council about obtaining right of access and cost of the same just to cover ourselves 

Ditzy_Mitzy

jimmy_boy81 said:

Ditzy_Mitzy said:

Sorry @jimmy_boy81, I misread your original comment.  What it actually means is that your property has no rights over the garages or forecourt area.  Your boundary ends with your fence and everything beyond it is someone else's land.  The forecourt is there for the benefit of those houses associated with the garages only.  It's a similar situation to my own house, which backs on to a church car park.  I have no rights to use the church car park or drive across it, even though I could put a gate in my back fence and walk straight through to it.  
Your own gate is immaterial.  There's nothing to stop you having it, but without a right of access there's also nothing to stop the car park's owner building a wall directly behind your fence and stopping up the way through.  The fact that nobody who uses the garages cares that you park there is also immaterial.  It reduces the chances of any friction, thus lessening the likelihood of the landowner finding out, but it doesn't matter legally.  As you said, this is all done at your own risk.  Unfortunately it now seems that the landowner has got wind of it and may start taking action.  Exactly what action, I don't know.  You may never hear anything ever again but it would probably be sensible to keep the car out of the way whilst the workmen are about.  

Thanks again for your reply. Were selling our house and advised it has rear access (not rear parking) and we're getting a lot of questions about right of access. I've contacted our council about obtaining right of access and cost of the same just to cover ourselves 

In which case I can only recommend removing references to 'rear access' from the advert until the matter is clarified, and continuing to pursue the council for an answer.  If agreement is reached, which isn't guaranteed, you'll also have to get a solicitor to draw up the relevant deeds and carry out the Land Registry amendments.  

Were_Doomed

Ditzy_Mitzy said:

jimmy_boy81 said:

Ditzy_Mitzy said:

Sorry @jimmy_boy81, I misread your original comment.  What it actually means is that your property has no rights over the garages or forecourt area.  Your boundary ends with your fence and everything beyond it is someone else's land.  The forecourt is there for the benefit of those houses associated with the garages only.  It's a similar situation to my own house, which backs on to a church car park.  I have no rights to use the church car park or drive across it, even though I could put a gate in my back fence and walk straight through to it.  
Your own gate is immaterial.  There's nothing to stop you having it, but without a right of access there's also nothing to stop the car park's owner building a wall directly behind your fence and stopping up the way through.  The fact that nobody who uses the garages cares that you park there is also immaterial.  It reduces the chances of any friction, thus lessening the likelihood of the landowner finding out, but it doesn't matter legally.  As you said, this is all done at your own risk.  Unfortunately it now seems that the landowner has got wind of it and may start taking action.  Exactly what action, I don't know.  You may never hear anything ever again but it would probably be sensible to keep the car out of the way whilst the workmen are about.  

Thanks again for your reply. Were selling our house and advised it has rear access (not rear parking) and we're getting a lot of questions about right of access. I've contacted our council about obtaining right of access and cost of the same just to cover ourselves 

In which case I can only recommend removing references to 'rear access' from the advert until the matter is clarified, and continuing to pursue the council for an answer.  If agreement is reached, which isn't guaranteed, you'll also have to get a solicitor to draw up the relevant deeds and carry out the Land Registry amendments.  

As above ... and any changes will be at your cost (your own costs plus the other side's costs, as it's you that is requesting a change - the other side does not need to agree to your request at all, and indeed can insist that you remove your access route to their land).

How long have you lived their? How long has this unofficial access been in place?

AdrianC

And from the opposite side...
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6211759/shared-driveway

Manxman_in_exile

How long have you lived there?  I'm surprised your solicitor didn't spot this issue* and raise it with you when you purchased - did they?  If the person who sold you the property didn't have a right of access/right to park, you couldn't have bought it from them.

*Aren't enquiries about this sort of thing pre-conveyance usually answered by the vendors advising the purchaser's solicitor to inspect the title deeds to confirm what rights the purchaser is getting?  As a non-lawyer I wouldn't expect to be able to give a definitive answer to a prospective purchaser.