Am I expecting too much from my conveyancer or is she just useless?

skm1981

I've only ever bought one house, which was 15 years ago and it was a very straightforward purchase.  I've never sold and purchased at the same time.  

So we've had a few issues with selling our house.  The buyer has required additional surveys which she wanted me to pay for, but I didn't think it was down to me to pay. I have been kept updated with my buyer's position by my estate agent.  When I spoke to my conveyancer about whether it's normal for me to be paying for additional surveys, she said that sometimes this does happen and then asked me to try and open the lines of communication with the buyer myself, or if that didn't work, then to continue going through my estate agent. 

I was just under the impression that it was her job to be liaising with my buyer's conveyancer with any issues that arose, or am I wrong?  She also takes ages to respond to my emails.  When I told her that I wanted her to email the buyer's conveyancer regarding the survey issue, she did, but then I had to chase her over the next few days to see if she'd had a response, which she hadn't.  I kind of expected her to say "Not heard back, I'll chase them up", but no, my responses were always the same, basically she hasn't heard back and will let me know when she does.  Whenever I send her an email to update her on things, I never get an an acknowledgement email back.  I mean maybe my expectations are set too high, but I work for a law firm myself (although a large law firm), and this just isn't how we treat clients.  We always respond and acknowledge their emails.

I also haven't received any paperwork, like fixtures and fittings forms, etc., for the house that I'm buying.  Should I have received that by now?  I mean this process started in August.  So I'm just wondering if this is normal for conveyancers or if I have a particularly rubbish one?

davidmcn

skm1981 said:

I mean maybe my expectations are set too high, but I work for a law firm myself (although a large law firm), and this just isn't how we treat clients.  We always respond and acknowledge their emails.

And what are your fees compared with hers?

I don't think it's necessary to acknowledge receipt of emails unless they're particularly time-critical, and it sounds like she is aware of what's going on with your transaction, just that you're chasing her up faster than she would consider necessary. And she will have a better idea of when is reasonable to have expected a response from the other parties.

Preliminary negotiations around surveys/price etc are I think generally considered more a matter for the estate agents than the solicitors.

lika_86

You chased over the next few days after she sent the email? That seems over ambitious. The other side will have got it, they probably won't have actioned immediately, they then would have written to their client, who again, may not have dealt with it immediately, they then get back to their solicitor who then would need to get back to yours. This all takes time. If you're going to chase after your solicitor has sent something then do it via the estate agents who can check if the buyer has received anything and responded in a timely manner.

pinkteapot

I would never have direct contact with a buyer/seller, but I do discuss any issues like this via the EA rather than via my solicitor - it's usually much more efficient! EAs are happy to ring round people in a chain, handling further negotiations, sorting dates, etc. Far quicker than solicitors writing to each other and each liaising with their clients. 

Responses to emails - I've usually had acknowledgement of emails I sent so that part's a bit rubbish.

Receiving the F&F form etc - different companies have different processes. Some solicitors drip-feed paperwork to you as they receive it from the seller. Others wait till they've got everything to send you in a big bundle for review prior to exchange. Just ask what her process is and when you can expect things. 

Falafels

lika_86 said:

You chased over the next few days after she sent the email? That seems over ambitious. The other side will have got it, they probably won't have actioned immediately, they then would have written to their client, who again, may not have dealt with it immediately, they then get back to their solicitor who then would need to get back to yours. This all takes time. If you're going to chase after your solicitor has sent something then do it via the estate agents who can check if the buyer has received anything and responded in a timely manner.

To the OP - if you haven't bought or sold for 15 years, you'll find estate agents are far more actively involved in the transaction than they used to be, and can reach solicitors who would not be permitted to be in contact with you. The whole process is much more nitpicky than it used to be, too. Use your EA!

Your conveyancer may well be working from home, which will delay responses even further. You also don't say whether you're using a high street solicitor or an online conveyancer; if the latter, it's quite common for them not to maintain contact for long periods of time because they handle large numbers of transactions in order to keep their fees relatively low. 

AdrianC

skm1981 said:

So we've had a few issues with selling our house.  The buyer has required additional surveys which she wanted me to pay for, but I didn't think it was down to me to pay. I have been kept updated with my buyer's position by my estate agent.

They can ask.
You can agree or refuse.
If you refuse, they may decide to walk away - or they may just pay.

It's all up for negotiation...

When I spoke to my conveyancer about whether it's normal for me to be paying for additional surveys, she said that sometimes this does happen and then asked me to try and open the lines of communication with the buyer myself, or if that didn't work, then to continue going through my estate agent.

You want your conveyancer to make that decision for you, as to whether you pay or the buyer pays?

I was just under the impression that it was her job to be liaising with my buyer's conveyancer with any issues that arose, or am I wrong?

The conveyancer's job is to deal with the legals.
Who pays for an additional survey is not a legal question.

She also takes ages to respond to my emails.  When I told her that I wanted her to email the buyer's conveyancer regarding the survey issue, she did, but then I had to chase her over the next few days to see if she'd had a response, which she hadn't.  I kind of expected her to say "Not heard back, I'll chase them up", but no, my responses were always the same, basically she hasn't heard back and will let me know when she does.

You do know that neither of these conveyancers are working exclusively for just one client?

You ask your conveyancer to do X.
They pass the message on to the other conveyancer, at a time that's convenient for the rest of their workload.
They pass the message on the buyer, at a time that's convenient for the rest of their workload.
The buyer makes their mind up, perhaps not instantly, and replies to their conveyancer.
Their conveyancer passes the message on to yours, at a time that's convenient for the rest of their workload.
Yours passes it on to you, at a time that's convenient for the rest of their workload.

I mean maybe my expectations are set too high, but I work for a law firm myself (although a large law firm), and this just isn't how we treat clients. We always respond and acknowledge their emails.

How much is charged per hour by the fee-earners at your law firm? What gets invoiced for those acknowledgements?
How much are you paying total for your conveyance?

I also haven't received any paperwork, like fixtures and fittings forms, etc., for the house that I'm buying. Should I have received that by now?

I don't know. When did the vendor fill it in and return it to their conveyancer?

I mean this process started in August.

And here we are... just two months later, in the middle of what could be the second wave of the first global pandemic in a century...

steampowered

Unfortunately slow responses and not keeping people updated seems to be endemic with conveyancing. It is frustrating.

However, to be fair to the conveyancer, issues around price, survey etc. are much better addressed via the estate agent. The conveyancer will generally just handle the legal side of it and will not get involved in that sort of negotiation.  

skm1981

It is a high street law firm.  Maybe I'm expecting too much.  Like I said, it's been 15 years since I've done this, and that was a very straightforward purchase as I was buying the house from my grandad, so no estate agent was involved.  I just personally feel an acknowledgement of emails, even just "Thanks" so that I know she's received the email.

As for writing letters, I'm pretty sure that the conveyancers are communicating via email.  I can't see that she would write a formal letter to say that the buyer should pay for further surveys.  

Fees wise, it's a fixed fee, but any additional work would be charged extra.  I just feel like I'm blindly making my way through this process.

Law firm fees where I work are exceptionally higher, but a client is a client.  How much time would it take to read my email and hit reply and say "thanks".  I don't know, I just guess I expected a bit more contact.  My friend is buying and selling right now as well, and the conveyancers that she is using, she seems to be getting a much better service.  She's being kept up to date with what is happening.  I don't feel I am.

Re the paperwork, I've no idea when the vendor received the paperwork.  I don't know anything about what is going on with my seller.  I have only heard about the seller's position through her estate agent.  

AdrianC

skm1981 said:

As for writing letters, I'm pretty sure that the conveyancers are communicating via email.  I can't see that she would write a formal letter to say that the buyer should pay for further surveys.   

Whether communication is post/DX "letter" or email is irrelevant. The work is in the communication itself.

princeofpounds

Conveyancers are notorious for poor communication. The main reason is that the economics do not incentivise it. They are mostly on fixed fee (unlike your law firm I'm sure with the pleasure of billable hours), they will have several dozen transactions on the go at any one time. If they update every client every day, they would literally have no time to work. 

The way most of them manage this is by being reactive in their communications. For example - they send off a search. Weeks pass, and they will not communicate with their client. As far as they are concerned, why would they? Nothing has happened, there is nothing to update. It will not make the transaction any faster, and they do not get paid for speed. Then it pops into the in-tray and they forward it on. 

That's not to excuse everything, just to explain it. Of course some are worse than others, and as a client you often do want updates even if they aren't that meaningful, just to know that nothing is being overlooked.

A lot of the paperwork you'll receive - outside of searches and mortgage documentation - will actually come from the sellers' solicitor first; that includes draft contract and SPIF. It may be received and waiting for everything to be sent to you in one go, or they may send it when it arrives; the critical path for timescale is the slowest documentation, not the fastest.

A lot of what you have been asking is actually much better directed via the EA. Arguments over who pays for surveys should go through them, for sure.

skm1981

Of course I'm fully aware that we are in the middle of a global pandemic and I am aware that this has only been ongoing for 2.5 months (although there are only 3 people in this chain, myself being one of them), but it seems like nothing has happened with my purchase, like not one single thing.  And of course I'm aware I'm not their only client. I think I've probably sent her 3 emails during this time with a few chasers, one of which I'm still waiting for a response on.  This isn't about me being all self-important and self-righteous, thinking I deserve special treatment, it's just my expectations as a client paying for a service and wondering if I should be getting more from her than I am currently getting.

And @AdrianC, as I said if you read my first post, I haven't been in this process before, as in buying and selling at the same time, and no, I don't want my conveyancer to make the decision for me with regards to who pays for an additional survey.  I wanted her advice as to whether that is normal or not.  I certainly didn't expect her to tell me to try and speak with my buyers personally.  

In relation to chasing after sending an email about the surveys as to whether she had had a response, this to my mind was holding up the sale/purchase.  I wasn't willing to pay for a structural engineer (well not all of it anyway).  So I needed to know the buyer's position so that we could get a structural engineer if they were willing to contribute towards it, as they are currently booked up weeks in advance.

But maybe my expectations have been set too high, judging by the responses, which is fine - and was the whole point of me asking.