Moving abroad junior ISA

PicklePumpkin

My daughter has a junior ISA and fingers crossed we will be moving abroad next year.  I'm under the impression the ISA can not be closed, only moved to another ISA.  If we're successful in moving how will she be able to access the money when she turns 18? We will have no postal address here and what will happen if the account goes dormant do to no deposits?

bowlhead99

PicklePumpkin said:

My daughter has a junior ISA and fingers crossed we will be moving abroad next year.  I'm under the impression the ISA can not be closed, only moved to another ISA. 

Correct, ISA can only be accessed at age 18.

PicklePumpkin said:
 If we're successful in moving how will she be able to access the money when she turns 18? 

She will say "hey it's me, I have cash or investments in an account with you, here is my proof of who I am, can I have my money please?"

We will have no postal address here and what will happen if the account goes dormant do to no deposits?

Banks can only give away money that has been in an account that's been dormant for 15 years where the customer is no longer contactable. Presumably she (or you) would be in touch with them at some point over the next 15 years to let them know where you are.

[Deleted User]

Also check the tax laws in the country you are going. She may pay CGT on gains and income tax on dividends as ISAs are not recognised as tax shelters abroad. In some countries there is also no CGT allowance.

xylophone

It is clear that the account remains open and money cannot be removed from it until the child reaches 18, even if the child moves abroad.

The money in the account belongs to the child and is tax privileged in this country - but abroad?

 If the parent also moves/lives abroad, can he/she contribute?
According to 
https://www.gov.uk/junior-individual-savings-accounts/add-money-to-an-account
If your child moves abroad, you can still add cash to their Junior ISA.
But
https://thechildrensisa.com/faqs/

You can only open a Junior ISA savings account if you are a UK resident for tax purposes. If you are employed by the crown (for example you are a diplomat or soldier work abroad) then you can open a Junior ISA.

If you move abroad after already opening an account then you are not allowed to make payments into the account.

On the other hand

https://www.triodos.co.uk/faq/what-happens-if-i-the-child-move-abroad-am-i-still-able-to-pay-into-my-junior-cash-isa?id=d89c5ec6768a

Yes. As long as the child was a UK resident when the Junior cash ISA was opened, you will still be able to pay into the Junior cash ISA even though you and/or the child have moved abroad.

All Zurich have to say on the matter in Key features of the

Zurich Junior Stocks and Shares ISA

Moving abroad

If you or the child move abroad you need to tell

us. This may result in you having tax obligations in

that country. If you or the child move to the US

we may place further restrictions on the account

A bit of a puzzle!

bowlhead99

xylophone said:
A bit of a puzzle!

From https://www.gov.uk/guidance/junior-isas-for-isa-managers#overview-JISA
about applying for and opening an account:

A JISA is an investment account of an eligible child managed in accordance with the ISA regulations under terms agreed between the ISA provider and the registered contact. Any person can subscribe to a child’s JISA.
A child is an eligible child for a JISA if, when the account application is made:

• they are under age 18

• they were born on or after 3 Jan 2011 or do not have a Child Trust Fund (CTF) account

• they are resident in the UK, or are a UK Crown servant, married to or in a civil partnership with a Crown servant, or a dependent of a Crown servant

So, you have to be resident or crown servant / married to one / dependent of one to get it.
But then once the account is open
From https://www.gov.uk/guidance/repair-a-junior-isa-and-manage-account-holders-subscriptions notes

Who can subscribe to a JISA
Any person can subscribe to a JISA by way of a cash payment. The person subscribing need not be resident in the UK, nor do they have to be related to the child. Providers are not required to obtain the consent of the registered contact or account holder before accepting subscriptions from any person. However providers may operate their own rules concerning the acceptance or refusal of any particular subscription, subject to their normal regulatory requirements. Subscriptions to the JISA can be made even if the child is not present in the UK. 
.......
The child, the child’s parents or other relatives, local authorities, charities or any other person can subscribe to the JISA. All subscriptions must be made in cash, which may include payment by cheque, direct debit, charge card, credit card, direct credit and standing order - depending on the payment methods accepted by the account provider. JISA rules do not require providers to identify or record the identity of the third party contributor, or to advise the registered contact or account holder of this fact, although there may be other regulatory reasons providers may choose to do this.
........
The provider may impose conditions on opening and maintaining a JISA, such as requiring an initial minimum lump sum subscription or minimum regular payments. Where a provider operates general account rules that would prevent it accepting particular subscriptions (for example, subscriptions made from particular countries) these rules may be applied in the normal way, subject to the normal regulatory requirements.

So, once an account has been successfully applied for while the child is a UK resident (or dependent of crown servant overseas), the child can keep it, and anyone can contribute to it ('subscribe to it') within the annual limits, whether they are UK resident or not and whether or not the child is in the UK.  But providers can implement their own rules for their own businesses within reason.

The standard ISA rules are set out in The Individual Savings Account Regulations 1998 (as heavily amended over the years) covers the law on how ISAs work, and regulation 11 - which people are a bit more familiar with - is the one that says if the account investor stops being resident he can keep the account but can't put more in....
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1998/1870/regulation/11

Account investor ceasing to qualify
11.  Notwithstanding any other provision of these Regulations an account investor who, after subscribing to an account, at any time ceases to fulfil the conditions of regulation 10(2)(d) may retain the benefits of the account (including the right to any relief or exemption due under the account) subsisting at that time but, so long as he fails to fulfil those conditions, shall not be entitled to subscribe further to such an account.

... however, the amendment to the regulations when JISAs were introduced, The Individual Savings Account (Amendment No. 2) Regulations 2011, defined what 'account investor' meant in the context of a JISA when interpreting the various regulations (sometimes the named child themselves, sometimes the registered contact).

They made it clear that regulation 11 doesn't apply to JISAs at all, so is a red herring.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2011/1780/regulation/6/made

Regulations that do not apply to junior ISA accounts
2D.  Regulations 4(6)(fa), 4ZA, 4A, 4B, 4C, 4D, 5B, 7(2)(h), 10, 11, 12, 21, 23 and 30, do not apply to a junior ISA account.

That means there's no rule that stops someone contributing to a JISA once it's been set up, whether the person making contributions or the child are resident or not. So your Triodos Bank link is fine - it doesn't break any HMRC rules for the parent or child to keep having the account and paying in. Triodos have branches around Europe so may be more friendly than a UK-focused business like 'TheChildrensISA' , to customers who move internationally.

As was mentioned above in the gov.uk guidance however, the provider can impose their own conditions over the top of the HMRC rules. If they don't want someone from overseas or particular countries to beneficially own or pay into the account, they can say so. 

So it's fine for Zurich to say that if you become a US person they may restrict your account, or for thechildrensisa to say that if you've gone abroad after opening it they no longer want any new money from you.  They have no control over where you go, and their general risk management process may mean they don't want to handle customer funds that come from (or are beneficially owned by) someone resident in e.g. Myanmar or Nigeria or North Korea - due to them being higher risk jurisdictions for money laundering or non-cooperative territories in relation to financial crime - so they find it easier to just have a blanket ban.

HTH

Malaga25

I think the Uk government need to reiterate or examine the rules if you emigrate from UK after your child junior isa was set up in UK 
If you find your existing provider is unsatisfactory or a better rate is available then you should be able to do so -if not you must be able to close the account 
Providers must be customer orientated ie stop this sharp practice of offering 4% then next year it drops to 0,25% unless make appointment IFA  and change -why not offer 5/10/15 year fixed rate account 
if people decide to emigrate then the provider would require meeting withIFA and explain fully the situation etc 
I,ve had an awful time with Halifax -no email, no acknowledgements of correspondence incl Formal complaints ,mail statements sent o wrong address etc