Hiring a driver for the driving test

alihd

AdrianC said:

There's one thing I'm struggling to understand here...
You have been driving for nearly a decade and a half elsewhere, you are apparently very ready for the test, and perfectly capable of passing it. It's purely the stress of being in the test environment that causes you to have failed four times so far.
Yet if you don't drive for a fortnight, you'll forget how to use a mini roundabout, you'll forget how to observe properly, you'll forget how to use junctions, you'll forget how to park, "a thousand other things" - and you'll even forget how to drive on the right of the car, left of the road...

Yeah, driving in the UK is entirely different. When you drive for a decade and then try a new system and environment, all you learn from the lessons is a "short-term memory" thing unless you drive and drive for a year and the new habit sits in your "long-term memory". 
If I don't practice driving (which is hard to do with such a shortage of instructor slots and the regulations for L-plate supervisory), I roll-back to my old habits built in decades. For example:

• I don't do 360-degree looks (still a 270-degree-something look and almost aware of the situation), but I failed one test because it didn't satisfy the examiner. I don't do it normally because the extra part of the observation (beyond the blind spots, on the back of the car) is unnecessary as it can be seen in the mirrors.
• I can't figure out how the upcoming car is giving way in the UK. I failed another time because in a junction I supposed the other car in front (who had a priority) is giving way (as he fully stopped before the line), so I moved off to complete my nearside turn, but before I finish the turn he decided to move off. Back home we have hand-gestures, but here people are silent and you don't understand the meaning of their pauses: is it giving way, is it no? 

It's not just my view. My instructors also suggest that once you fail a test, be quick to find another cancellation ASAP before you forget stuff.

Grumpy_chap

alihd said:

Yeah, driving in the UK is entirely different. When you drive for a decade and then try a new system and environment, 

Sorry, but I don't "get" that...
I drive in the UK, but I go on holiday to EU and USA and such-like, all with different driving rules and don't have any problem adapting, whether in my own car or hired car.  In fact, sometimes it is easier in a hired car as then you are sitting in the correct position for the road and get the correct sight-lines, etc.

Herzlos

alihd said:

Scrapit said:

3 previous tests say otherwise 

Passing all the mock tests and failing the actual tests doesn't say otherwise.

What mock tests?
That sounds like you really should be paying a proper instructor for a short block of refresher lessons / mock tests and then do the test when more confident. It sounds like that'd be cheaper than repeatedly booking tests.

Herzlos

alihd said:

I don't do 360-degree looks (still a 270-degree-something look and almost aware of the situation), but I failed one test because it didn't satisfy the examiner. I don't do it normally because the extra part of the observation (beyond the blind spots, on the back of the car) is unnecessary as it can be seen in the mirrors.

You need to check the blind spots *because* you can't see them in your mirrors, what's why they are called blind spots. Admittedly, you need to exaggerate when looking in a test.

alihd said:

• I can't figure out how the upcoming car is giving way in the UK. I failed another time because in a junction I supposed the other car in front (who had a priority) is giving way (as he fully stopped before the line), so I moved off to complete my nearside turn, but before I finish the turn he decided to move off. Back home we have hand-gestures, but here people are silent and you don't understand the meaning of their pauses: is it giving way, is it no?
  

If you're not sure how junctions here work, then you need some proper lessons and practice, they'd don't work any different from any other country I've driven in except backwards.
Here it's based very much on the road markings; you can't cross a line if you're going to cross someone elses path. You're not allowed to act on hand gestures (or horns/lights) because they can be misleading. For example, in the Middle East, a flash of lights means "I'm going to pass you" but in the UK it's taken to mean "I'm letting you out".

Where were you driving for 10+ years previously? "Ali" makes me assume |Eastern Europe / Middle East?

Booking tests again quickly is good for new drivers who are still learning, experienced drivers shouldn't be forgetting anything.

AdrianC

alihd said:

Yeah, driving in the UK is entirely different.

Can I ask which country your licence is from? I presume it's not EU, else you wouldn't be needing to retake a test.

I can't figure out how the upcoming car is giving way in the UK. I failed another time because in a junction I supposed the other car in front (who had a priority) is giving way (as he fully stopped before the line), so I moved off to complete my nearside turn, but before I finish the turn he decided to move off. Back home we have hand-gestures, but here people are silent and you don't understand the meaning of their pauses: is it giving way, is it no?

Priority is clearly established through road markings at EVERY junction. Go by those, not other people.

If you have a particular situation in mind, please feel free to give a streetview link and an explanation, and we'll help you understand how the Highway Code applies.

It's not just my view. My instructors also suggest that once you fail a test, be quick to find another cancellation ASAP before you forget stuff.

So, umm, what's going to change the day after your test?
Remember, a driving test pass only shows you meet the absolute bare minimum standard to be qualified to drive unaccompanied.

alihd

Herzlos said:

You need to check the blind spots *because* you can't see them in your mirrors, what's why they are called blind spots. Admittedly, you need to exaggerate when looking in a test. 

Correct. That exaggeration in looking into the mirrors is something that doesn't become a habit and I forget. When you are in an environment (empty parking) and you know (by many different ways of perceptions) that no car has come into the parking, what's the point of observing the exact 360 degrees. It's unfair to fail for that.

Herzlos said:

If you're not sure how junctions here work, then you need some proper lessons and practice, they'd don't work any different from any other country I've driven in except backwards.
Here it's based very much on the road markings; you can't cross a line if you're going to cross someone elses path. You're not allowed to act on hand gestures (or horns/lights) because they can be misleading. For example, in the Middle East, a flash of lights means "I'm going to pass you" but in the UK it's taken to mean "I'm letting you out".

Where were you driving for 10+ years previously? "Ali" makes me assume |Eastern Europe / Middle East?

Booking tests again quickly is good for new drivers who are still learning, experienced drivers shouldn't be forgetting anything.

You nailed it. Yes, I'm from the Middle East and no matter how much you practice, I still confuse the meaning of "showing lights" unless I drive here for so long. My strategy is to always give way and be a bit too conservative to prevent accidents, but then the DVSA examiners have another row for failing you: "Hesitation".
This boundary between "Giving way" and "Hesitation" in the UK, plus the gestures (flash of lights) that mean the opposite here. There's no way to learn it properly unless you are in the streets for so many hours (be it with or without an instructor).  This "so many hours" translates to thousands of pounds if I'm gonna pay an instructor for merely reminding me that. I can still go the "cautious" style and be in no trouble until I learn it, but it doesn't work in the exams as they fail you for hesitation.

AdrianC

alihd said:
When you are in an environment (empty parking) and you know (by many different ways of perceptions) that no car has come into the parking, what's the point of observing the exact 360 degrees. It's unfair to fail for that.

You aren't just looking for cars!

Quite how you know, though, without looking... which means showing the examiner that you're looking...
Anything else is simply an assumption.

I still confuse the meaning of "showing lights" unless I drive here for so long. My strategy is to always give way and be a bit too conservative to prevent accidents, but then the DVSA examiners have another row for failing you: "Hesitation".

No, it really isn't that simple.

They're more likely to fail you for just pulling out regardless, simply because somebody flashed.

You need to be certain that you have understood the flash correctly, and - even more importantly - that you know there's not another vehicle coming that the flasher hasn't seen. Especially a motorcycle or bicycle. If you're failing on "hesitation" in this circumstance, there's more to it than that.

Remember - HC110 tells you what a headlight flash actually means, while HC111 is explicit in what you cannot assume it means.

Which part of the "Middle East"? It's a big place, and - frankly - acceptable driving standards in many parts simply fall a long way short of UK standards. Driving to those standards does not necessarily mean you're ready to drive here, even before factoring in the inevitable bad habits that may lead to a fail even there.

alihd

AdrianC said:

Remember - HC110 tells you what a headlight flash actually means, while HC111 is explicit in what you cannot assume it means.
Which part of the "Middle East"? It's a big place, and - frankly - acceptable driving standards in many parts simply fall a long way short of UK standards. Driving to those standards does not necessarily mean you're ready to drive here, even before factoring in the inevitable bad habits that may lead to a fail even there.

Thanks for pointing to HC 110. It says:

Flashing headlights. Only flash your headlights to let other road users know that you are there. Do not flash your headlights to convey any other message or intimidate other road users.

But I don't think people use it for that. I've definitely seen people in the UK flashing headlight for both "I'm giving way" and "I'm not giving way", though the latter is most common when negotiating.

I've been driving in Iran, and yes, the driving standards and the test is on smooth car control, not the road. When driving for years, people develop the unwritten norms though. I admit that mirror checks and observation protocols are more strict and cautious in the UK, which totally makes sense, but I can't see how the habit can be effectively changed in just tens of driving lessons. It needs hundreds. 

Car_54

alihd said:

Herzlos said:

You need to check the blind spots *because* you can't see them in your mirrors, what's why they are called blind spots. Admittedly, you need to exaggerate when looking in a test. 

Correct. That exaggeration in looking into the mirrors is something that doesn't become a habit and I forget. When you are in an environment (empty parking) and you know (by many different ways of perceptions) that no car has come into the parking, what's the point of observing the exact 360 degrees. It's unfair to fail for that.

Herzlos said:

If you're not sure how junctions here work, then you need some proper lessons and practice, they'd don't work any different from any other country I've driven in except backwards.
Here it's based very much on the road markings; you can't cross a line if you're going to cross someone elses path. You're not allowed to act on hand gestures (or horns/lights) because they can be misleading. For example, in the Middle East, a flash of lights means "I'm going to pass you" but in the UK it's taken to mean "I'm letting you out".

Where were you driving for 10+ years previously? "Ali" makes me assume |Eastern Europe / Middle East?

Booking tests again quickly is good for new drivers who are still learning, experienced drivers shouldn't be forgetting anything.

You nailed it. Yes, I'm from the Middle East and no matter how much you practice, I still confuse the meaning of "showing lights" unless I drive here for so long. My strategy is to always give way and be a bit too conservative to prevent accidents, but then the DVSA examiners have another row for failing you: "Hesitation".
This boundary between "Giving way" and "Hesitation" in the UK, plus the gestures (flash of lights) that mean the opposite here. There's no way to learn it properly unless you are in the streets for so many hours (be it with or without an instructor).  This "so many hours" translates to thousands of pounds if I'm gonna pay an instructor for merely reminding me that. I can still go the "cautious" style and be in no trouble until I learn it, but it doesn't work in the exams as they fail you for hesitation.

You must have studied the Highway Code for your theory test. The rules on flashing headlamps could not be more clear.

"Rule 110

Flashing headlights. Only flash your headlights to let other road users know that you are there. Do not flash your headlights to convey any other message or intimidate other road users.

Rule 111

Never assume that flashing headlights is a signal inviting you to proceed. Use your own judgement and proceed carefully."

If an oncoming driver flashes, but does not slow down or stop, you will not be penalised for hesitation. You must not rely on a headlamp flash - it is only safe to proceed when the other driver's intentions have become clear.

alihd

... and at the height of the exam, suddenly one of the habits kick in and ruined the test, such as lack of mirror checks, etc.
This doesn't happen when doing mock tests, on which I am more relaxed and focused.