Dealer will not refund deposit

judgeged

Hi please can someone help me. I went to a used car dealer on the 15/10/2020 I saw a car I liked but we couldn’t agree a deal. I went home thought about it and rang them with my final offer, they eventually agreed and I spoke to a member of staff who said “ we need a deposit of a £1000 before we will start work on the car. I enquired as to when the car would be ready and they said it will be ready by fri 23rd Oct. I thought this was a long time but decided I wouldn’t rush them so I agreed and ended the call. I then transferred £1000 by bacs to their account. On the morning of Thursday 22nd Oct I phoned to check we were still ok for the following day they responded yes everything is on target for 10 am the following day. Then I received another phone call approx 13.40 the same day saying the car might not be ready but would be ready probably sat morning the 24th Oct. halfway through the call I got cut off ( I was on my way to work where the phone signal is at best intermittent, I manage to text my wife and asked her to speak to them) we were then given Sat pm as the collection time to which I said it’s ok I’ll collect it Monday as we were both on holiday from work (keep in mind this is now Friday am), I received another phone call later that day to say not only would it not be ready Sat it won’t be ready Monday either, but the good news is they are willing to give me my deposit back if I chose that . I told them I’d ring them later as I’m at work. I again contacted my wife and told her to tell them they are messing me about, by Monday they would have had 11 days to sort the car out and it still wasn’t going to be ready. I asked my wife to tell them I wanted my money back and the deal is off, they have now started saying that in accordance with their terms and conditions ( that we still have not even seen let alone signed) we will be offered the car once it is ready and if we choose not to have it we have forfeited our right to get our deposit back, I’m absolutely terrified as I cannot afford to lose the £1000 but their service so far has been a joke, imagine how bad it would be if I’d bought the car and there was a problem with it ! 

AdrianC

judgeged said:

Hi please can someone help me. I went to a used car dealer on the 15/10/2020 I saw a car I liked but we couldn’t agree a deal. I went home thought about it and rang them with my final offer, they eventually agreed and I spoke to a member of staff who said “ we need a deposit of a £1000 before we will start work on the car. I enquired as to when the car would be ready and they said it will be ready by fri 23rd Oct. I thought this was a long time but decided I wouldn’t rush them so I agreed and ended the call. I then transferred £1000 by bacs to their account. On the morning of Thursday 22nd Oct I phoned to check we were still ok for the following day they responded yes everything is on target for 10 am the following day. Then I received another phone call approx 13.40 the same day saying the car might not be ready but would be ready probably sat morning the 24th Oct. halfway through the call I got cut off ( I was on my way to work where the phone signal is at best intermittent, I manage to text my wife and asked her to speak to them) we were then given Sat pm as the collection time to which I said it’s ok I’ll collect it Monday as we were both on holiday from work (keep in mind this is now Friday am), I received another phone call later that day to say not only would it not be ready Sat it won’t be ready Monday either, but the good news is they are willing to give me my deposit back if I chose that . I told them I’d ring them later as I’m at work. I again contacted my wife and told her to tell them they are messing me about, by Monday they would have had 11 days to sort the car out and it still wasn’t going to be ready. I asked my wife to tell them I wanted my money back and the deal is off, they have now started saying that in accordance with their terms and conditions ( that we still have not even seen let alone signed) we will be offered the car once it is ready and if we choose not to have it we have forfeited our right to get our deposit back, I’m absolutely terrified as I cannot afford to lose the £1000 but their service so far has been a joke, imagine how bad it would be if I’d bought the car and there was a problem with it ! 

You say "they've had 11 days" - but actually if it's ready Tuesday instead of Friday, it's just one full working day over what you agreed as part of the purchase deal.

Let's look at that timeline...
Thu 15th - agree deal, agree collection on Fri 23rd
Thu 22nd, am - fine for Fri 10am
Thu 22nd, early pm - car prob not ready Fri, but Sat PM. You said "Fine, I'll collect Mon".
Thu 22nd, later pm (or Fri am?) - going to be Tuesday. Very sorry, they'll call the deal off and refund deposit if you prefer.

You don't say what or how old the car is or what the problem being sorted before collection was, but it's entirely normal for a job to escalate once the workshop start in on it. That may well require parts as well as time. Especially in the current situation, a short delay like that on parts arriving, or due to workshop staff not being available, is absolutely to be expected. Are you in an area under one of the tier 2 or 3 restrictions?

However, if they offered you your deposit back, then rescinded that offer, that's less reasonable on their part. You do not need to see their Ts & Cs to be bound by them - if you wanted to see what they were, the time to ask for them was before paying the deposit.

Grumpy_chap

Did you test drive the car? 
Was it working OK then?
What is the issue that they are needing to repair?
What is the total cost of the car?
What ago, make model, mileage?
Is it a main dealer, car supermarket, trusted / established independent or "back street" dealer?

If you are getting the car you want at a fair price, it is probably better to let the garage have the extra time to get it all fixed properly than rush them and take the car, but then need to resolve issues after.  In a way, it may be a positive that the garage is taking time to fix the car rather than rush it out the door and try to walk away.

judgeged

I was buying  a Jaguar XF with average mileage 2008 and I’m trading in a Ford Focus 2013 with 69k on it, it’s a navigator model so has every gimmick you can buy including auto park, sat nav, cruise, Bluetooth etc  the costs involved are my business but they are also irrelevant, does it matter if I’m buying a Bentley or a corsa the same protection should be afforded to both, no I haven’t test driven the car, it’s an independent used car sales company with over 200 cars in stock the cash involved was me paying them 1350, I sent them a deposit of £1000, to show I was a serious buyer, I’ve never signed any terms and conditions nor have I ever seen any, I think 11 days is more than being patient and giving them time to sort the service and mot out, in 11 days you could rebuild the entire car surely 

judgeged

I’m confused what difference does the age of the car make as it happens it was a 2008 car with 66k on the clock, how does that make any difference to them not having a vehicle ready in 11 days this is Thursday 15th Oct......Monday 26th Oct 15th to 26th is 11 days in my book and remember it’s still not ready they told me this Friday pm when their employee rang and said “ good news and bad news the bad news is the car still won’t be ready on Monday but the good news is they’ve agreed to give you your deposit back if you want it 

Grumpy_chap

I always understood that the top spec Jaguar's are "Portfolio" trim, but I have never been in a position to afford such a vehicle.

You are dealing with a large company, so you need to trust that the time is being used to repair the car.

I would never order a car without a test drive - I am surprised by the number of people who post on here saying they have purchased without test drive and then there is something untoward that could have been picked up.  In particular, you said in the OP that you went to the used car dealer and saw a car you liked - did the dealer not offer a test drive to entice the deal?

Are you chopping the Focus because it has become a money-pit?

You are entitled to keep the costs confidential but you are correct that the protection should be the same whether it is a Bentley or a Corsa.  You seem to be choosing to buy the badge rather than the car and this top-spec Jaguar is still a 12 y.o. car at "average" mileage, so over 100k I assume.  This is an old car and will have age-related deterioration of parts and components.  While the purchase cost might not be much swapping from the Focus, the running costs could be scary.

You have still not given any indication of what the issue is that they are needing to fix.

NottinghamKnight

66k miles over 12 years is well under average mileage, not a problem assuming it isn't a diesel. A premium marque comes with associated higher running costs so would hope thee are being budgeted for, which doesn't sound the case if £1k is a stretch. Your options are either to wait, or threaten and go through with legal action to recover your deposit which is neither quick nor guaranteed. 
Also you should always try and pay a deposit on credit card, that gives you another point of claim if things do go wrong, though it's no guarantee.

EdGasketTheSecond

Why do they need to 'work' on the car? Is there something wrong with it? Why didn't you say you'll make an offer when it was ready and go back and view it then?

macman

Why did you pay the deposit by BACS rather than debit card? Big mistake, as now you have no chance of a chargeback if needed. Did you receive a receipt or confirmation of deposit received?
Unless it was agreed that your deposit was returnable, then paying a deposit means that you have contracted to buying the car. It's not just an 'option to purchase'. Having to wait a few more days to take delivery does not entitle you to breach the contract.
Why no test drive when buying a car which is 12 years old and so near to end of life? It's crazy. I hope this isn't a diesel, as just 5.5K miles per year means that the DPF may well be at the point where replacement is needed.

AdrianC

judgeged said:

I was buying  a Jaguar XF with average mileage 2008 and I’m trading in a Ford Focus 2013 with 69k on it, it’s a navigator model so has every gimmick you can buy including auto park, sat nav, cruise, Bluetooth etc  the costs involved are my business but they are also irrelevant, does it matter if I’m buying a Bentley or a corsa the same protection should be afforded to both, no I haven’t test driven the car 

judgeged said:

I’m confused what difference does the age of the car make as it happens it was a 2008 car with 66k on the clock, how does that make any difference to them not having a vehicle ready in 11 days this is Thursday 15th Oct......Monday 26th Oct 15th to 26th is 11 days in my book and remember it’s still not ready they told me this Friday pm when their employee rang and said “ good news and bad news the bad news is the car still won’t be ready on Monday but the good news is they’ve agreed to give you your deposit back if you want it 

Assuming the workshop works Mon-Fri, then Thu 15 - Mon 26 is not 11 working days, it's 8. And you agreed to Thu 15 - Fri 23 when you negotiated the deal. We're talking about ONE extra working day.

If they've offered you your deposit back, then you should be able to take them up on that offer.

Consumer rights are tempered according to reasonable expectations for goods of that age, type, apparent condition. The average age of a car at scrapping in the UK is just under 14yo - you are looking at a 12yo car from a small independent sales place. Is it reasonable to hold that to the same expectations as a 6mo manufacturer approved-used one? Of course it isn't.

There are 75 2008 XFs on Autotrader. They range in price from <£1k to £9k. Fewer than 10 of those 75 cars are above £6.5k, with the median being around £4.5k-£5k. New price starts at £33k, so even the most expensive are a tiny proportion of that new price, and the median is less than 15% of that new price. Is it reasonable to expect an as-new car? Of course not.

I would be astonished if it was a petrol, too - around 20% of the cars on Autotrader are petrol, because 2008 was at the height of the diesel boom - so take heed of the comments about low-mileage diesels and DPF issues.

Grumpy_chap

We still don't know what the issue is the dealer is trying to fix.
The OP saw the car (in person), but did not test drive for some reason.
Whatever happens, with a 12 yo XF, large bills are likely to be looming.  In essence, even a routine or age-related maintenance item that is reasonably expected will cost disproportionately more on a car like this than a Focus.