I can't believe how greedy ebay and paypal have become.

theorville

A seller refunded partly a buyer, who complained that a few items out of a dozen sent in the parcel had broken in transit. Seller asked ebay to refund 22p of FVF (Final Value Fees), because that was the amount of income that ebay had from the FVF from the amount that had been refunded to the buyer.
Ebay refused claiming that they don't issue a final value fee credit if only partial refund was issued to the buyer.

So the seller made a new claim, this time not for a refund of FVF, but for a compensation in the amount of 22p for ebay's unjust enrichment.

This is because ebay charges 10% of FVF of the value of the transaction. The transaction value has been lowered by 2.24 as a result of the refund to the buyer, so consequently in effect ebay are charging the seller in this case 13.35% of the value of the transaction, and that is not in accordance with ebay's policy, because in accordance with the policy they should charge 10%, and not 13.35%.

Ebay replied that they are sorry for the inconvenience, but they cannot provide with any compensation even as a courtesy.
That's surprising that ebay want to strain the relationship with their customer over such small amount that they earned out of nothing really.
They found a way to get money for nothing out of thin air.

And paypal as you all probably know stopped refunding their fees at all, even with full refunds to buyers.

soolin

EBay stopped refunding fees on part refunds several years ago , it is not a new thing. 

GabbaGabbaHey

Firstly, why should eBay be out of pocket because the Seller didn't wrap the items sufficiently well?
Secondly, unless you consistently have 100,000+ listings live at any one time, eBay really don't give two hoots about "straining the relationship" with you. What are you going to do - take your business elsewhere?
eBay and PayPal are businesses. They are there to maximise shareholder value; part of that involves charging as much as the market will bear.

theorville

soolin said:

EBay stopped refunding fees on part refunds several years ago , it is not a new thing. 

I believe that the new thing is that they stopped making any goodwill gesture or courtesy payments.

theorville

GabbaGabbaHey said:

Firstly, why should eBay be out of pocket because the Seller didn't wrap the items sufficiently well?
Secondly, unless you consistently have 100,000+ listings live at any one time, eBay really don't give two hoots about "straining the relationship" with you. What are you going to do - take your business elsewhere?

eBay and PayPal are businesses. They are there to maximise shareholder value; part of that involves charging as much as the market will bear.

The seller is a private seller not a business. So you say that if the seller does not provide them with a huge income then they can behave like as*hols and take money for nothing from the seller? 

"GabbaGabbaHey said:

Firstly, why should eBay be out of pocket because the Seller didn't wrap the items sufficiently well?"

Firstly, it is irrelevant. What is relevant is that they earn 10% of the value of the items sold, so if that value decreases, so must their earnings, otherwise they earn out of nothing, and that's not fair.  

Secondly, why do you assume that seller did anything wrong and not the courier (or the buyer, if he/she is not honest)?

The items were packed perfectly, each one in a Foam Net Shockproof Protective Sleeve, like these:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Shockproof-Protective-Sleeve-Strawberry-Packaging/dp/B07PVHMSNL

Then all of them were put in an air column bag like these: 
https://www.airpackagingmachine.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/air-column-bag-Air-Bag-Packing-.png

And all this was wrapped around in a strong cardboard box with air pillow packaging like this:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Airplus-Cushion-Packaging-120mm-Ready-Made/dp/B00BR0UJTE

So frankly, I am surprised how any damage could occur at all, unless like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YrpmZFixp0

soolin

theorville said:

soolin said:

EBay stopped refunding fees on part refunds several years ago , it is not a new thing. 

I believe that the new thing is that they stopped making any goodwill gesture or courtesy payments.

I wasn’t aware that they were doing goodwill gestures after so many years.

theoretica

theorville said:

 What is relevant is that they earn 10% of the value of the items sold, so if that value decreases, so must their earnings, otherwise they earn out of nothing, and that's not fair.  

Of course it is unfair - they wrote the rules. 

theorville

theoretica said:

theorville said:

 What is relevant is that they earn 10% of the value of the items sold, so if that value decreases, so must their earnings, otherwise they earn out of nothing, and that's not fair.  

Of course it is unfair - they wrote the rules. 

Being persistently unfair usually ends badly for an entity that is like that.

soolin

theorville said:

theoretica said:

theorville said:

 What is relevant is that they earn 10% of the value of the items sold, so if that value decreases, so must their earnings, otherwise they earn out of nothing, and that's not fair.  

Of course it is unfair - they wrote the rules. 

Being persistently unfair usually ends badly for an entity that is like that.

They are currently a very strong brand - if you read novels or even watch some modern TV programmes people don't 'auction online' they 'ebay' just like people who 'hoover' their house rather than vacuum it. 

They have been strong in the UK market now for 20 years plus, buying out or wiping out most competitors , I don't think they seem to be suffering unduly yet. I go to B and M auctions (towards the lower end of the market, not million pound paintings!) and if you look around at the people browsing the stuff for sale virtually all of them are using their phones to look up ebay completed prices. If being unfair does mean it ends badly for them, then it is a long time coming.

I do however think ebay will eventually run out of steam, perhaps when all this covid19 stuff is a distant memory people will embrace going out to shop again - and ebay, like other online companies will start to decline.

theorville

soolin said:

theorville said:

theoretica said:

theorville said:

 What is relevant is that they earn 10% of the value of the items sold, so if that value decreases, so must their earnings, otherwise they earn out of nothing, and that's not fair.  

Of course it is unfair - they wrote the rules. 

Being persistently unfair usually ends badly for an entity that is like that.

They are currently a very strong brand - if you read novels or even watch some modern TV programmes people don't 'auction online' they 'ebay' just like people who 'hoover' their house rather than vacuum it. 

They have been strong in the UK market now for 20 years plus, buying out or wiping out most competitors , I don't think they seem to be suffering unduly yet. I go to B and M auctions (towards the lower end of the market, not million pound paintings!) and if you look around at the people browsing the stuff for sale virtually all of them are using their phones to look up ebay completed prices. If being unfair does mean it ends badly for them, then it is a long time coming.

I do however think ebay will eventually run out of steam, perhaps when all this covid19 stuff is a distant memory people will embrace going out to shop again - and ebay, like other online companies will start to decline.

They are the strong brand on this market because they had been the first dominant on-line auction site on this market. But there are countries where some other companies started their auction services before ebay, and ebay with all their money and power have not managed to undermine them. Ebay's share of the market there is negligible comparing to those other companies who were there before ebay. Being first in internet is almost everything for some large internet businesses.

soolin

theorville said:

soolin said:

theorville said:

theoretica said:

theorville said:

 What is relevant is that they earn 10% of the value of the items sold, so if that value decreases, so must their earnings, otherwise they earn out of nothing, and that's not fair.  

Of course it is unfair - they wrote the rules. 

Being persistently unfair usually ends badly for an entity that is like that.

They are currently a very strong brand - if you read novels or even watch some modern TV programmes people don't 'auction online' they 'ebay' just like people who 'hoover' their house rather than vacuum it. 

They have been strong in the UK market now for 20 years plus, buying out or wiping out most competitors , I don't think they seem to be suffering unduly yet. I go to B and M auctions (towards the lower end of the market, not million pound paintings!) and if you look around at the people browsing the stuff for sale virtually all of them are using their phones to look up ebay completed prices. If being unfair does mean it ends badly for them, then it is a long time coming.

I do however think ebay will eventually run out of steam, perhaps when all this covid19 stuff is a distant memory people will embrace going out to shop again - and ebay, like other online companies will start to decline.

They are the strong brand on this market because they had been the first dominant on-line auction site on this market. But there are countries where some other companies started their auction services before ebay, and ebay with all their money and power have not managed to undermine them. Ebay's share of the market there is negligible comparing to those other companies who were there before ebay. Being first in internet is almost everything for some large internet businesses.

If that were true then eBay UK would not have such a huge presence now as EBay Uk were late to the UK market. I was selling on other sites well before eBay UK started and in fact I first opened my eBay account on .com as they hadn’t launched in the UK and people were suggesting that when they did they were going to be huge . Freeserve auctions served me well, and were taken by eBay, there was a site called Friday auctions (not connected to something of the same name now), they just folded and also Yahoo auctions - but I don’t know what happened to them. 

Ebay have not got a foothold in the Far East at all though and sellers on eBay are desperately trying to fight off Chinese sellers who are trying to get a strangle hold on the Western market by using eBay and often by using misdirection with their location, and dodgy stock.