Car insurance company trying to charge me £30 admin fee to change ambiguous 'purchase date'. Advice?

Wolff

Long story short - my new insurer is trying to charge me £30 admin fee because they think I should have answered the "When did you buy the car?" question with the date the registered keeper had it put in their name. I'm not happy about this as this question was extremely ambiguous in my case, and from reading negative reviews of this insurer, it seems like they are the Ryanair of car insurance, lure you in with a cheap price, wait till the cooling off period is over, and then ask you to send documents to try to find things on the insurance to charge admin fees to change. (Or they just flat out cancel your policy and charge you a cancellation fee at the same time). I'm going to refute this, but I also want to get an idea of where I stand with this before I contact them. I don't want to risk them cancelling my policy simply because they can and I'm challenging them them on it.

Context: I was contacted by my new insurer last week asking for me to send a copy of the v5 so they could check details. The only thing I could think this would relate to would be the "When did you purchase the car?" question, because it was a particularly vague question in my case as I technically never purchased it. (They also make it extremely difficult to find contact info for them, so I was unable to clarify this at the time, but thought I was overthinking it). I put down September 2019, the date I was given the car, and sure enough that's what they're trying to claim is incorrect now they've seen the v5 and trying to charge me £30 to change it.

Basically, it is a car that has been passed through several members of my family. My dad is registered keeper and he inherited it - he never bought it. He became registered keeper in 2011, which is the date they're saying I should have put for this question. I put down on my insurance that he is both the registered keeper and owner of the car.
Firstly, the question was "When did YOU purchase the car?". Not "When did the registered keeper purchase the car?". So if I did put 2011, that would be incorrect, if I'd interpreted that question literally. Last year with my previous insurer, I put "I haven't bought it yet" (which is the only technically true answer to that question), and both they and my new insurer state they will take "Today's date" as the date you purchased the car, so I can only interpret that as the date you obtained the car. Hence, although I was unsure about it, I put September 2019 on this year's policy as it was the date I was given the car, and it would be in line with the previous policy and my interpretation of that question.  Again, a very unclear question if you didn't buy the car.

My other point lies with the fact that they're using the v5 to make assumptions about when the car was bought/obtained. From my research, and the v5 also states this, that it is not proof of ownership. It says "Date acquired on" and then lists 2011 when my dad must have changed the registered keeper to his name. However, he has given the car to me and I basically have responsibility of it. I keep it at my address, the only one who drives it 99% of the time, pay for the MOTs, repairs, the one parking ticket I've had, etc., but we haven't changed the registered keeper because I will give it back to him whenever I'm ready to buy my own car. (He said it was too much hassle to do that and go through all the paperwork). But for now, from my (and my dad's) perspective, we co-own the car.

Has anyone found themselves in a similar situation or can offer any advice on how to approach this?

EDIT: I'd also appreciate if anyone can clarify how the owner of the car is defined legally. Having looked into it a bit more, I'm reading that the registered keeper is responsible for telling the DVLA of any changes to ownership. Yet the registered keeper and owner are not necessarily the same person, and the v5 is not proof of ownership and doesn't list  owner, only the registered keeper? So confused.

John_

If you want advice, mine would be to pay it and move on. £30 is not worth arguing over, and as to a matter of principle, you are least partly at fault here as you could have asked for clarification but didn’t.

Wolff

John_ said:

If you want advice, mine would be to pay it and move on. £30 is not worth arguing over, and as to a matter of principle, you are least partly at fault here as you could have asked for clarification but didn’t.

As I said, they didn't provide any obvious method of contacting them. Only place I've found a phone number on their website since is under the FAQ relating to "if we've contacted you asking you to give us more information". Which you aren't going to find unless you end up in my situation.

Nearlyold

Talk about making things difficult for yourself - to clarify

Every car has an owner. That’s the person who bought it, or was given it. (That's you in this case)

The registered keeper is the person who looks after the car and keeps it and ordinarily pays for tax MOT and any services etc. (That's you again)

This way there's no mental gymnastics required in future when completing the insurance application.

Takes about 3 minutes to change the Keeper on line

bris

You're the owner of the car if it was given to you by the old owner who can give it to you.

It takes literally 2 minutes to to change the keeper on a V5 there is no paperwork, its a signature and a stamp, or even easier to do it online without even looking at the V5.

Insurers like it to be registered to you too though and will ask questions if this isn't the case. In your case you say you co own the car, have you told the insurers this? Are you insuring a car you don't  own? Who gets paid in the event of a claim? Are you fronting the insurance? These are all valid questions, you haven't been up front with them and their due diligence on you has brought up the V5 issue. If anyone but you has an accident in this car they will think you are fronting the insurance

There is one team to take your money but in the event of a claim a different team look into every minute detail and they will do there best to void the insurance. 

naedanger

Wolff said:

Long story short - my new insurer is trying to charge me £30 admin fee because they think I should have answered the "When did you buy the car?" question with the date the registered keeper had it put in their name. I'm not happy about this as this question was extremely ambiguous in my case, and from reading negative reviews of this insurer, it seems like they are the Ryanair of car insurance, lure you in with a cheap price, wait till the cooling off period is over, and then ask you to send documents to try to find things on the insurance to charge admin fees to change. (Or they just flat out cancel your policy and charge you a cancellation fee at the same time). I'm going to refute this, but I also want to get an idea of where I stand with this before I contact them. I don't want to risk them cancelling my policy simply because they can and I'm challenging them them on it.

Context: I was contacted by my new insurer last week asking for me to send a copy of the v5 so they could check details. The only thing I could think this would relate to would be the "When did you purchase the car?" question, because it was a particularly vague question in my case as I technically never purchased it. (They also make it extremely difficult to find contact info for them, so I was unable to clarify this at the time, but thought I was overthinking it). I put down September 2019, the date I was given the car, and sure enough that's what they're trying to claim is incorrect now they've seen the v5 and trying to charge me £30 to change it.

Basically, it is a car that has been passed through several members of my family. My dad is registered keeper and he inherited it - he never bought it. He became registered keeper in 2011, which is the date they're saying I should have put for this question. I put down on my insurance that he is both the registered keeper and owner of the car.
Firstly, the question was "When did YOU purchase the car?". Not "When did the registered keeper purchase the car?". So if I did put 2011, that would be incorrect, if I'd interpreted that question literally. Last year with my previous insurer, I put "I haven't bought it yet" (which is the only technically true answer to that question), and both they and my new insurer state they will take "Today's date" as the date you purchased the car, so I can only interpret that as the date you obtained the car. Hence, although I was unsure about it, I put September 2019 on this year's policy as it was the date I was given the car, and it would be in line with the previous policy and my interpretation of that question.  Again, a very unclear question if you didn't buy the car.

My other point lies with the fact that they're using the v5 to make assumptions about when the car was bought/obtained. From my research, and the v5 also states this, that it is not proof of ownership. It says "Date acquired on" and then lists 2011 when my dad must have changed the registered keeper to his name. However, he has given the car to me and I basically have responsibility of it. I keep it at my address, the only one who drives it 99% of the time, pay for the MOTs, repairs, the one parking ticket I've had, etc., but we haven't changed the registered keeper because I will give it back to him whenever I'm ready to buy my own car. (He said it was too much hassle to do that and go through all the paperwork). But for now, from my (and my dad's) perspective, we co-own the car.

Has anyone found themselves in a similar situation or can offer any advice on how to approach this?

EDIT: I'd also appreciate if anyone can clarify how the owner of the car is defined legally. Having looked into it a bit more, I'm reading that the registered keeper is responsible for telling the DVLA of any changes to ownership. Yet the registered keeper and owner are not necessarily the same person, and the v5 is not proof of ownership and doesn't list  owner, only the registered keeper? So confused.

Your point that the v5 does not show ownership is valid. 

If you gave the date you were gifted the car as the date you purchased the car then, in your position, I would put my complaint in writing to the company headed "Formal Complaint". Then follow their complaint process, which they are obliged to send you. If you are not given an explanation that satisfies you that their action is justified then escalate your complaint. As the end of their internal process, if you are still not satisfied, you will be permitted to take your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service, who are independent of the insurer.

Nearlyold

naedanger said:

Wolff said:

Long story short - my new insurer is trying to charge me £30 admin fee because they think I should have answered the "When did you buy the car?" question with the date the registered keeper had it put in their name. I'm not happy about this as this question was extremely ambiguous in my case, and from reading negative reviews of this insurer, it seems like they are the Ryanair of car insurance, lure you in with a cheap price, wait till the cooling off period is over, and then ask you to send documents to try to find things on the insurance to charge admin fees to change. (Or they just flat out cancel your policy and charge you a cancellation fee at the same time). I'm going to refute this, but I also want to get an idea of where I stand with this before I contact them. I don't want to risk them cancelling my policy simply because they can and I'm challenging them them on it.

Context: I was contacted by my new insurer last week asking for me to send a copy of the v5 so they could check details. The only thing I could think this would relate to would be the "When did you purchase the car?" question, because it was a particularly vague question in my case as I technically never purchased it. (They also make it extremely difficult to find contact info for them, so I was unable to clarify this at the time, but thought I was overthinking it). I put down September 2019, the date I was given the car, and sure enough that's what they're trying to claim is incorrect now they've seen the v5 and trying to charge me £30 to change it.

Basically, it is a car that has been passed through several members of my family. My dad is registered keeper and he inherited it - he never bought it. He became registered keeper in 2011, which is the date they're saying I should have put for this question. I put down on my insurance that he is both the registered keeper and owner of the car.
Firstly, the question was "When did YOU purchase the car?". Not "When did the registered keeper purchase the car?". So if I did put 2011, that would be incorrect, if I'd interpreted that question literally. Last year with my previous insurer, I put "I haven't bought it yet" (which is the only technically true answer to that question), and both they and my new insurer state they will take "Today's date" as the date you purchased the car, so I can only interpret that as the date you obtained the car. Hence, although I was unsure about it, I put September 2019 on this year's policy as it was the date I was given the car, and it would be in line with the previous policy and my interpretation of that question.  Again, a very unclear question if you didn't buy the car.

My other point lies with the fact that they're using the v5 to make assumptions about when the car was bought/obtained. From my research, and the v5 also states this, that it is not proof of ownership. It says "Date acquired on" and then lists 2011 when my dad must have changed the registered keeper to his name. However, he has given the car to me and I basically have responsibility of it. I keep it at my address, the only one who drives it 99% of the time, pay for the MOTs, repairs, the one parking ticket I've had, etc., but we haven't changed the registered keeper because I will give it back to him whenever I'm ready to buy my own car. (He said it was too much hassle to do that and go through all the paperwork). But for now, from my (and my dad's) perspective, we co-own the car.

Has anyone found themselves in a similar situation or can offer any advice on how to approach this?

EDIT: I'd also appreciate if anyone can clarify how the owner of the car is defined legally. Having looked into it a bit more, I'm reading that the registered keeper is responsible for telling the DVLA of any changes to ownership. Yet the registered keeper and owner are not necessarily the same person, and the v5 is not proof of ownership and doesn't list  owner, only the registered keeper? So confused.

Your point that the v5 does not show ownership is valid. 

If you gave the date you were gifted the car as the date you purchased the car then, in your position, I would put my complaint in writing to the company headed "Formal Complaint". Then follow their complaint process, which they are obliged to send you. If you are not given an explanation that satisfies you that their action is justified then escalate your complaint. As the end of their internal process, if you are still not satisfied, you will be permitted to take your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service, who are independent of the insurer.

The OP's point is not valid because he told the Insurer in the proposal that his Father was the Registered Keeper and Owner

From his post - "I put down on my insurance that he is both the registered keeper and owner of the car"

To compound the confusion it is clear the OP is actually the keeper (& thus should have put the V5 in his name) and owner of the car and should have completed the proposal declaring himself as such.

Wolff

Nearlyold said:

naedanger said:

Wolff said:

Long story short - my new insurer is trying to charge me £30 admin fee because they think I should have answered the "When did you buy the car?" question with the date the registered keeper had it put in their name. I'm not happy about this as this question was extremely ambiguous in my case, and from reading negative reviews of this insurer, it seems like they are the Ryanair of car insurance, lure you in with a cheap price, wait till the cooling off period is over, and then ask you to send documents to try to find things on the insurance to charge admin fees to change. (Or they just flat out cancel your policy and charge you a cancellation fee at the same time). I'm going to refute this, but I also want to get an idea of where I stand with this before I contact them. I don't want to risk them cancelling my policy simply because they can and I'm challenging them them on it.

Context: I was contacted by my new insurer last week asking for me to send a copy of the v5 so they could check details. The only thing I could think this would relate to would be the "When did you purchase the car?" question, because it was a particularly vague question in my case as I technically never purchased it. (They also make it extremely difficult to find contact info for them, so I was unable to clarify this at the time, but thought I was overthinking it). I put down September 2019, the date I was given the car, and sure enough that's what they're trying to claim is incorrect now they've seen the v5 and trying to charge me £30 to change it.

Basically, it is a car that has been passed through several members of my family. My dad is registered keeper and he inherited it - he never bought it. He became registered keeper in 2011, which is the date they're saying I should have put for this question. I put down on my insurance that he is both the registered keeper and owner of the car.
Firstly, the question was "When did YOU purchase the car?". Not "When did the registered keeper purchase the car?". So if I did put 2011, that would be incorrect, if I'd interpreted that question literally. Last year with my previous insurer, I put "I haven't bought it yet" (which is the only technically true answer to that question), and both they and my new insurer state they will take "Today's date" as the date you purchased the car, so I can only interpret that as the date you obtained the car. Hence, although I was unsure about it, I put September 2019 on this year's policy as it was the date I was given the car, and it would be in line with the previous policy and my interpretation of that question.  Again, a very unclear question if you didn't buy the car.

My other point lies with the fact that they're using the v5 to make assumptions about when the car was bought/obtained. From my research, and the v5 also states this, that it is not proof of ownership. It says "Date acquired on" and then lists 2011 when my dad must have changed the registered keeper to his name. However, he has given the car to me and I basically have responsibility of it. I keep it at my address, the only one who drives it 99% of the time, pay for the MOTs, repairs, the one parking ticket I've had, etc., but we haven't changed the registered keeper because I will give it back to him whenever I'm ready to buy my own car. (He said it was too much hassle to do that and go through all the paperwork). But for now, from my (and my dad's) perspective, we co-own the car.

Has anyone found themselves in a similar situation or can offer any advice on how to approach this?

EDIT: I'd also appreciate if anyone can clarify how the owner of the car is defined legally. Having looked into it a bit more, I'm reading that the registered keeper is responsible for telling the DVLA of any changes to ownership. Yet the registered keeper and owner are not necessarily the same person, and the v5 is not proof of ownership and doesn't list  owner, only the registered keeper? So confused.

Your point that the v5 does not show ownership is valid. 

If you gave the date you were gifted the car as the date you purchased the car then, in your position, I would put my complaint in writing to the company headed "Formal Complaint". Then follow their complaint process, which they are obliged to send you. If you are not given an explanation that satisfies you that their action is justified then escalate your complaint. As the end of their internal process, if you are still not satisfied, you will be permitted to take your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service, who are independent of the insurer.

The OP's point is not valid because he told the Insurer in the proposal that his Father was the Registered Keeper and Owner

From his post - "I put down on my insurance that he is both the registered keeper and owner of the car"

To compound the confusion it is clear the OP is actually the keeper (& thus should have put the V5 in his name) and owner of the car and should have completed the proposal declaring himself as such.

But my dad is both the registered keeper and the legal owner of the car...
I would be lying if I said otherwise. I haven't seen anything that says by law you need to be the registered keeper if you are the person who mainly uses it, although I agree it makes more sense. However, that doesn't make it false to say he's the registered keeper. The car still ultimately belongs to my dad. I've only thought about it as co-owning since this whole palava arose and questioned what it actually means to be an owner. But I don't believe I have any legal claim to the car over my dad if he say fell out with me and decided he wanted it back.

Nearlyold

If your Dad gave you the vehicle (which is what you said) then you now own it - that is the law. If you are now saying he only lent it to you then that's different.
You also said
"However, he has given the car to me and I basically have responsibility of it. I keep it at my address, the only one who drives it 99% of the time, pay for the MOTs, repairs, the one parking ticket I've had, etc". The only logical conclusion that can be drawn from that is that you are the keeper of the vehicle.

naedanger

Wolff said:

Nearlyold said:

naedanger said:

Wolff said:

Long story short - my new insurer is trying to charge me £30 admin fee because they think I should have answered the "When did you buy the car?" question with the date the registered keeper had it put in their name. I'm not happy about this as this question was extremely ambiguous in my case, and from reading negative reviews of this insurer, it seems like they are the Ryanair of car insurance, lure you in with a cheap price, wait till the cooling off period is over, and then ask you to send documents to try to find things on the insurance to charge admin fees to change. (Or they just flat out cancel your policy and charge you a cancellation fee at the same time). I'm going to refute this, but I also want to get an idea of where I stand with this before I contact them. I don't want to risk them cancelling my policy simply because they can and I'm challenging them them on it.

Context: I was contacted by my new insurer last week asking for me to send a copy of the v5 so they could check details. The only thing I could think this would relate to would be the "When did you purchase the car?" question, because it was a particularly vague question in my case as I technically never purchased it. (They also make it extremely difficult to find contact info for them, so I was unable to clarify this at the time, but thought I was overthinking it). I put down September 2019, the date I was given the car, and sure enough that's what they're trying to claim is incorrect now they've seen the v5 and trying to charge me £30 to change it.

Basically, it is a car that has been passed through several members of my family. My dad is registered keeper and he inherited it - he never bought it. He became registered keeper in 2011, which is the date they're saying I should have put for this question. I put down on my insurance that he is both the registered keeper and owner of the car.
Firstly, the question was "When did YOU purchase the car?". Not "When did the registered keeper purchase the car?". So if I did put 2011, that would be incorrect, if I'd interpreted that question literally. Last year with my previous insurer, I put "I haven't bought it yet" (which is the only technically true answer to that question), and both they and my new insurer state they will take "Today's date" as the date you purchased the car, so I can only interpret that as the date you obtained the car. Hence, although I was unsure about it, I put September 2019 on this year's policy as it was the date I was given the car, and it would be in line with the previous policy and my interpretation of that question.  Again, a very unclear question if you didn't buy the car.

My other point lies with the fact that they're using the v5 to make assumptions about when the car was bought/obtained. From my research, and the v5 also states this, that it is not proof of ownership. It says "Date acquired on" and then lists 2011 when my dad must have changed the registered keeper to his name. However, he has given the car to me and I basically have responsibility of it. I keep it at my address, the only one who drives it 99% of the time, pay for the MOTs, repairs, the one parking ticket I've had, etc., but we haven't changed the registered keeper because I will give it back to him whenever I'm ready to buy my own car. (He said it was too much hassle to do that and go through all the paperwork). But for now, from my (and my dad's) perspective, we co-own the car.

Has anyone found themselves in a similar situation or can offer any advice on how to approach this?

EDIT: I'd also appreciate if anyone can clarify how the owner of the car is defined legally. Having looked into it a bit more, I'm reading that the registered keeper is responsible for telling the DVLA of any changes to ownership. Yet the registered keeper and owner are not necessarily the same person, and the v5 is not proof of ownership and doesn't list  owner, only the registered keeper? So confused.

Your point that the v5 does not show ownership is valid. 

If you gave the date you were gifted the car as the date you purchased the car then, in your position, I would put my complaint in writing to the company headed "Formal Complaint". Then follow their complaint process, which they are obliged to send you. If you are not given an explanation that satisfies you that their action is justified then escalate your complaint. As the end of their internal process, if you are still not satisfied, you will be permitted to take your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service, who are independent of the insurer.

The OP's point is not valid because he told the Insurer in the proposal that his Father was the Registered Keeper and Owner

From his post - "I put down on my insurance that he is both the registered keeper and owner of the car"

To compound the confusion it is clear the OP is actually the keeper (& thus should have put the V5 in his name) and owner of the car and should have completed the proposal declaring himself as such.

But my dad is both the registered keeper and the legal owner of the car...
I would be lying if I said otherwise. I haven't seen anything that says by law you need to be the registered keeper if you are the person who mainly uses it, although I agree it makes more sense. However, that doesn't make it false to say he's the registered keeper. The car still ultimately belongs to my dad. I've only thought about it as co-owning since this whole palava arose and questioned what it actually means to be an owner. But I don't believe I have any legal claim to the car over my dad if he say fell out with me and decided he wanted it back.

I think it would be more fruitful for you making your complaint to the company. People on this forum cannot see all the documentation as you and the insurer can.

However if you do wish to know what people here think then:

Were you asked whether you owned the car?
Were you asked whether you were the registered keeper?
Are you the main driver? 
If you are not the only insured driver, who else is insured to drive the car?
Where did you put down that your father was the registered keeper and owner? Was in a comment or in response to questions? (If it was in a comment or further information section, then they should have clarified the position before issuing the insurance. If not then they should know the question asking 'when did you buy the car' is not applicable to you.)

rs65

Is £30 just an admin fee or did it alter the premium?  Ridiculous either way

Main point here is you need to answer the questions asked truthfully and it looks like you decided what the question was.  

As above, you say you were given it and declared your dad owns it.  Can't be both.