Failed MOT when paying for service and MOT

Ectophile

scot22_2 said:

The garage must MOT car as it is when it comes in to the garage.  Avoid this by booking service first one day and MOT a later day.  Inconvenient but avoids risk.

So what do you do if it fails the MOT on something that was not covered by the service?  Its got a failed MOT and isn't booked in for any servicing work.  That's even more inconvenient.

facade

Biggus_Dickus said:

Presumably??  the headlamp adjustment was rectified before the mechanic completed the online MOT paperwork so if what you say is correct why would he bother recording a FAIL ?...a bit puzzling.

Statistics

If you go to https://www.gov.uk/government/statistical-data-sets/mot-testing-data-for-great-britain, you can get the data and see that every year 24% of the defects are lighting related. There are about 30 million MOTs so we can have reasonable confidence that 24% of the cars presented for MOT have something wrong with the lights.

so we expect that his station would initially fail around that 24% too.

If his test station had zero failures on lights, because he just puts a bulb in/fixes the problem and only records the subsequent pass, then it is obvious from the outside he isn't doing his job right! (Is he not testing properly? Is he not recording properly?)

It is one of those situations where everybody needs to keep running with the middle of the herd or you might get eaten.

Takmon

Biggus_Dickus said:

Takmon said:

forgotmyname said:

My MOT guy told me to go and fetch a bulb from the cupboard, bulb failed during the test..   No failure or advisory as it
passed during the lights check, failed as they drove it upto the emissions machine.

He didnt want me driving out with a failed bulb though, that would not have looked good.

He has also adjusted the headlights without failing or advisories. Bonnets open the adjuster is right
there he says little things like that brings the customers back.

As part of the MOT test they are actually supposed to attempt to adjust them before they are allowed to fail them so if he did just fail it or give an advisory without adjustment that would be against MOT rules.

I wasn’t aware of that either. The two pics are from my sons MOT last year;...a single FAIL due to headlamp adjustment followed by an immediate PASS

Presumably??  the headlamp adjustment was rectified before the mechanic completed the online MOT paperwork so if what you say is correct why would he bother recording a FAIL ?...a bit puzzling.

The car was only in the garage about 35mins.

 

I would say that is incorrectly recorded because adjusting the headlights is the only adjustment allowed during the MOT so as it is adjusted and then checked again during the test within the rules it should only be a fail if the aim was out due to a fault with the light adjustment or something else that would then required a "repair". There could have been an issue where it was jammed and they spent some time fixing it and not charged for the time spent doing this.

But I'm not an expert and this is something that was told to me by an MOT tester a few years ago when my car was being done. 

Mickey666

scot22_2 said:

The garage must MOT car as it is when it comes in to the garage.  Avoid this by booking service first one day and MOT a later day.  Inconvenient but avoids risk.

That’s not correct, at least in my experience.
I’ve just booked in my car for an MoT test.  It needs a new tyre and one headlamp is not working, so obviously both fails.  The headlight might just be a bulb or the whole mechanism (it’s one of those fancy automatic, swivel types).  If it’s a new bulb they’ll be able to fix it today, if it’s a complete new unit it will have to be ordered and won’t be able to be fixed until next week.  My current MoT certificate expires in three weeks.

So, I instructed the garage to change the tyre and check the headlight.  If a new bulb fixes it then do that and then MoT test.  If it needs a complete new unit then don’t MoT test until they can replace the unit next week.  The garage had no problem with that approach and I’ll collect my car later with either a new MoT certificate (assuming no other failure!) or with the existing one still valid.  OK, the car won’t technically be road legal but it’s only one headlamp, which can fail at anytime , but all the paperwork will be valid.

AdrianC

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that DVSA actively recommend garages test as presented - before any service work is done. This helps them compile the statistics on what is driving around on our roads... Kinda useful information, no?

Pass and Rectify at Station - PRS - does not show as a fail then a pass. it just shows as a single test, a pass (because that's what it is), but the PRS items are logged in those stats.

Mickey666 said:

I’ve just booked in my car for an MoT test.  It needs a new tyre and one headlamp is not working, so obviously both fails.  The headlight might just be a bulb or the whole mechanism (it’s one of those fancy automatic, swivel types).  If it’s a new bulb they’ll be able to fix it today, if it’s a complete new unit it will have to be ordered and won’t be able to be fixed until next week.  My current MoT certificate expires in three weeks.

So, I instructed the garage to change the tyre and check the headlight.  If a new bulb fixes it then do that and then MoT test.  If it needs a complete new unit then don’t MoT test until they can replace the unit next week.  The garage had no problem with that approach and I’ll collect my car later with either a new MoT certificate (assuming no other failure!) or with the existing one still valid.  OK, the car won’t technically be road legal but it’s only one headlamp, which can fail at anytime , but all the paperwork will be valid.

It won't change the legality one bit how and when the tests are or aren't done.

Your car has an MOT valid for the next three weeks, so you cannot be prosecuted for not having a current MOT. Whether it gets tested again or not.

A car with only one working headlight is not roadworthy, so not legal. Whether a headlight is on order or not, whether it's been tested or not.

Mickey666

AdrianC said:

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that DVSA actively recommend garages test as presented - before any service work is done. This helps them compile the statistics on what is driving around on our roads... Kinda useful information, no?

Pass and Rectify at Station - PRS - does not show as a fail then a pass. it just shows as a single test, a pass (because that's what it is), but the PRS items are logged in those stats.

Mickey666 said:

I’ve just booked in my car for an MoT test.  It needs a new tyre and one headlamp is not working, so obviously both fails.  The headlight might just be a bulb or the whole mechanism (it’s one of those fancy automatic, swivel types).  If it’s a new bulb they’ll be able to fix it today, if it’s a complete new unit it will have to be ordered and won’t be able to be fixed until next week.  My current MoT certificate expires in three weeks.

So, I instructed the garage to change the tyre and check the headlight.  If a new bulb fixes it then do that and then MoT test.  If it needs a complete new unit then don’t MoT test until they can replace the unit next week.  The garage had no problem with that approach and I’ll collect my car later with either a new MoT certificate (assuming no other failure!) or with the existing one still valid.  OK, the car won’t technically be road legal but it’s only one headlamp, which can fail at anytime , but all the paperwork will be valid.

It won't change the legality one bit how and when the tests are or aren't done.

Your car has an MOT valid for the next three weeks, so you cannot be prosecuted for not having a current MOT. Whether it gets tested again or not.

A car with only one working headlight is not roadworthy, so not legal. Whether a headlight is on order or not, whether it's been tested or not.

I've always thought that a failed MoT test cancels any remaining time on the previous test certificate.

I appreciate a car is not road-legal with a defective headlamp, but it was a risk I was prepared to take and besides how many prosecutions are there for failed bulbs anyway and how many drivers have ever been stopped for a random headlamp check in daylight when lights are off?  Most likely a warning to get it fixed asap I'd have thought.  However, with an MoT test failure on record, I'd have thought it more likely to be stopped by a cruising police car in these days of ANPR and MoT databases.

Anyway, in my case it's all academic.  The garage was 'promised' the replacement headlamp unit would arrive in the afternoon so they proceeded to remove the existing one, only for the replacement not to arrive so I won't get the car back until next week anyway.

On a slight tangent, remember the days when a faulty headlight could be fixed for a few quid?  Well now we have fancy "Intelligent Light Systems" that shine around corners (among other features), beware of a bird strike breaking a hole in the lens allowing the weather to penetrate all that "intelligence" and necessitating a whole new headlamp assembly at the bargain price of £540 for the unit, plus £120 for labour and a sprinkling of 20% vat on top.  And that's at an independent garage - goodness know how much a main agent would have charged!  Oh well, it's only money

AdrianC

Mickey666 said:

AdrianC said:

Mickey666 said:

I’ve just booked in my car for an MoT test.  It needs a new tyre and one headlamp is not working, so obviously both fails.  The headlight might just be a bulb or the whole mechanism (it’s one of those fancy automatic, swivel types).  If it’s a new bulb they’ll be able to fix it today, if it’s a complete new unit it will have to be ordered and won’t be able to be fixed until next week.  My current MoT certificate expires in three weeks.

So, I instructed the garage to change the tyre and check the headlight.  If a new bulb fixes it then do that and then MoT test.  If it needs a complete new unit then don’t MoT test until they can replace the unit next week.  The garage had no problem with that approach and I’ll collect my car later with either a new MoT certificate (assuming no other failure!) or with the existing one still valid.  OK, the car won’t technically be road legal but it’s only one headlamp, which can fail at anytime , but all the paperwork will be valid.

It won't change the legality one bit how and when the tests are or aren't done.

Your car has an MOT valid for the next three weeks, so you cannot be prosecuted for not having a current MOT. Whether it gets tested again or not.

A car with only one working headlight is not roadworthy, so not legal. Whether a headlight is on order or not, whether it's been tested or not.

I've always thought that a failed MoT test cancels any remaining time on the previous test certificate.

A lot of people do. It isn't true, and never has been - with the specific exemption of the 6mo covid extension.

On a slight tangent, remember the days when a faulty headlight could be fixed for a few quid?  Well now we have fancy "Intelligent Light Systems" that shine around corners (among other features)

Headlights that turn with the steering are nothing new - they've been in mainstream production since at least the 1960s, with various examples in smaller-scale use earlier than that. With perfectly normal replaceable bulbs...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjWxF4_G-pM

Non-repairable electronics are not only in headlights...

Mickey666

Yes, Citroëns were always a bit quirky.  I once drove a CX 'semi-auto'.  Very smooth ride but handled like a boat.  Power steering gave zero feel.  Brake pedal was little more than a hydraulic valve with about 1/2-inch of travel between off and wheels locked.  But the pièce de résistance was the 'semi-auto' transmission that consisted of a gear lever but no clutch.  Lifting off the accellerator would operate some sort of clutch mechanism allowing the gear lever to be used to select the next gear.  It did work but it took a lot of cencentration not to push down with the left foot while moving the gear-stick.  So, setting off was all ok until second gear was required and the instinct was to push down hard with the left foot . . . onto the 'vicious' brake pedal. 

I suspect the demise of all these, and other, Citroën innovations tells its own story.

facade

I thought the "intelligent light systems" were a huge matrix of LEDs in the back of the lamp and the com-pu-tah checks the lidar/laser ranger/infra red vision/optical camera array, then if it sees an oncoming car/cyclist/pedestrian it kills just the LEDs that shine into their eyes, making a "hole" in the wall of pure blue-whiteness and avoiding dazzling them.

Obviously, as you sweep majestically past them, the LEDs in use change.

They could have extra LEDs and use the steering angle sensor to project extra light into the turn as well.

I could be imagining this though, it certainly provides an excellent opportunity to replace a simple reliable £2 filament bulb with a £££££ system that is bound to go wrong once it gets damp

nottsphil

Why would the MoT test numbers on the certificates pictured above be so wildly different? It's not as if they actually conducted two separate tests!