First time buyer - Horizontal crack on external wall

Jack_Bauer

Hi,

I am a first time buyer, looking to buy my first home in greater London for around £550k. I have offered on a property both myself and the Mrs really like which the owners claim was completely renovated by them around 5-6 years ago to the tune of close to £100k. Indeed it does look very nice inside. We were told no structural changes were done apart from knocking a wall to make a through lounge and making the upstairs bathroom 1m longer into one of the existing bedrooms.

During my first viewing with the estate agent, when looking at the property from the garden, I noticed the rear of the property had a very large diagonal, south easterly crack. The adjacent property had a similar crack in more or less the same place, albeit it was smaller and faced a south westerly direction. I raised this concern to the estate agent and he suggested it was the first time he had seen it too so wasn't aware it.

Fast forward 1 week later and we go for our second viewing, I have noticed the vendor has done a DIY job and plastered over the crack before I've had a chance to get the crack examined further.

I am wondering what I should do about this now. I really like the property but as a first time buyer...

The size of the crack worries me

The fact the adjacent property has a similar crack worries me

The fact the vendor has plastered over the crack before I can get a Level 3 survey booked in worries me.

What should I do? Below is a picture taken by the estate agent on the property listing which shows the crack before anything was done to it.

LDreader

I think that if you’re really keen on the property it’s worth getting a structural survey done. See what the expert says and then make a decision from there. 

Jack_Bauer

LDreader said:

I think that if you’re really keen on the property it’s worth getting a structural survey done. See what the expert says and then make a decision from there. 

Can the structural survey be done effectively, even though the vendor has plastered over the evidence?

Doozergirl

Cracks tend to point to the source of their cause, so my immediate thought is that there's a
missing or inadequate lintel over the window where it starts. Not an expensive or complicated problem but the vendor's keenness to cover it isn't the sign of someone that genuinely cares.  Ask them what they did and why...

There's clear dampness at the side bay window.  Again, almost certainly a very simple cause but if this is being sold as a renovated property, there some real lack of basic knowledge or care here. Caveat Emptor.  

Davesnave

Doozergirl said:

 there some real lack of basic knowledge or care here. Caveat Emptor. 

Knowing where the drain run and inspection chamber usually is with houses like this, it seems the vendor may also have covered this with the decking. Why deck there anyway and what's being hidden?

Anamox

Ask the vendor why he's covered that area of the house without mentioning the crack, see what the response is. 

Personally this would put me off completely, he's renovated the house at "great cost" yet ignored a large crack which at best is cosmetically disappointing and at worse is signs of something catastrophic happening. What else inside this very nice interior is just covering up other problems? 

anselld

Roof spread.  The roof was not adequately reinforced when slate tiles were replaced with concrete and the additional weight tends to push out sideways on the walls.   It may have since been rectified so the crack may be historic rather than ongoing.   Make sure your surveyor checks the roof supporting structure.

Rural_Puppy

I think you are quite correct to raise questions about the cracks. The whole elevation looks a bit messy. There is damage to the render under the upstairs window, and the bottom half is different from the top. Has the bottom part been re- rendered? Why? When?
If you do pursue it, make sure it is with your eyes open. Best of luck

GDB2222

Are you sure that you're not being taken in by the toys? There are lights all down the fence, which are very pretty. But surely decking straight over the drain cover is completely daft?  

Hannimal

Jack_Bauer said:

LDreader said:

I think that if you’re really keen on the property it’s worth getting a structural survey done. See what the expert says and then make a decision from there. 

Can the structural survey be done effectively, even though the vendor has plastered over the evidence?

I had a full structural survey and it didn't report a (fairly obvious) history of considerably leaking through bathroom floor to downstairs ceiling. I don't know, based on the photos, the comments on this thread and my experience with my survey, I would not be buying this property. The thing is, that if the surveyor says 'there is crack that has been covered and it is not entirely clear what has caused it', that's their back covered. What you might benefit from though is a structural engineer to come look at it. I would be concerned about what the sellers may have been covering up as I know mine covered up water damage / leak with paint before viewings and survey. I had a full structural survey and the survey does not mention any of this. It's costing me a lot of money now.

But then I was also a FTB and I know very little about this kind of stuff. 

Jack_Bauer

Thank you all very much for your comments. I've had another conversation with the seller this morning and did go round to view the property for the third time to discuss the buyers motives and their history with the property.

It's a family of 4 (2 parents, 2 young children) selling the property which they've owned since 2009. In 2013 they got the windows in the property changed. Then in 2015, they undertook a big renovation project to a tune of almost £100k. This included:

• Removing all chimney breasts
• Knocking down through lounge wall and widening the upstairs bathroom by 1m
• Re-doing house electrics
• Re-doing all the house plumbing with new copper wires, apart from the lead mains coming in which needs doing.
  
• New Vailant combi boiler was installed and stelrads radiators throughout the property with a smart thermostat installed.
• A lot of the house was re-plastered.
  
• Ground floor was leveled to get rid of any unevenness
• Paving front driveway
• Building a small garden shed which is also wired up
• Paving garden and installing decking
• Installing lighting in the garden
• Installing security cameras to both sides of the property
• Installing new smoke alarms into mains
• Network cabling the entire house so Internet can be accessed from any living space
• Supply and fit of new Wren kitchen with quartz worktop
  
• New bathroom upstairs and WC downstairs
• Solid wood flooring
• Solid wood shutters
• Other decoration, paint, carpet upstairs, light fixtures etc
• EPC of the property is now 69 (C)
  

The family seem sincere, open and genuine. The reason for moving is to be closer to family and to have a bigger home for their growing family. I questioned them about any property concerns and this is what I was told...

1. When buying the property, the couple did not undertake their own private survey and the crack above the window has been there since they bought it. The reason he decided to cover it was because it has been there for 11 years and has never bothered them and didn't feel the need to worry about it. Since other potential buyers have also asked about it, he decided to just plaster it himself and save potential buyers the trouble of getting a builder to cover it, prior to selling the property. He is happy for any surveyor to remove the plaster to inspect it if needed.
2. The lower half of the rear of property got another layer of cement/render put on it in 2015 when they did their renovation. It was done when their kitchen was being done as several holes needed to be put into the rear wall to accommodate the boiler for instance and wiring coming in and out.
   
3. There are 2 gaps made into the garden decking for drainage which can be inspected. When looking at the house from the garden, one drainage point is located in the crevice behind the side bay window and the other is on the right hand side corner of where the decking meets the garden paving.
4. The roof has never been touched as they planned on doing that when they were going to do a loft conversion but they ran out of money before they could go ahead with that.
5. The cellar gets 1-2 inches or so of water occasionally. There is a river nearby (River Roding) and he referred to this as as 'water bank' or something like that. Again it has never bothered him so he hasn't ever done anything about it in the last 11 years as he keeps his stuff in the cellar and it's all raised off the ground, but he suggested this was an easy fix.

Based on all the above, I have some questions for all you lovely folk about my next play.

1. Can a RICS Level 3 Building Survey identify if there is any major issue going on with the property? As far as I understand it, their inspection is purely visual and they can't remove any plaster to see anything underneath.
2. Is a structural engineer report any different from a RICS Level 3 Building Survey. If so should I do it in addition to the above survey or instead of it?
3. Does the sellers explanation seem reasonable?
4. Should I be worried about the 'water bank' issue and 1-2 inches of water occasionally turning up in the cellar?. To be fair, the seller did tell us about this in our first viewing without us asking. They have been quite open and sincere from the get go.

I have added some more pictures below:

This is the neighbors crack which is practically identical but on the opposite side....

Looking forward to any advice/comments from you lovely people.