Help! Problems with kitchen fitter..

Louise__3

I’m currently having my kitchen fitted from a tradesman found through the ratedpeople.com website. 5 star reviews...

I have found him to be rude and unprofessional from the beyond the works. 

Day 1 - He turned up an hour late on the first day without informing me. Then told me that the written quote we had agreed on (and which states that all appliances would be fitted), does not include installing the gas hob as he forgot to tell me that he isn’t has safe approved. He then went on to argue and shout at me when I questioned this, and said that I felt it was unfair he was telling me of the extra cost on the day of him starting the works. 
The kitchen was ripped out, walls plastered and concrete floor screeded. I paid an initial deposit of £1600

they came back 2 days later to touch up the plastering, and found that the floor hadn’t properly dried. So said to leave it for another couple of days and they would be back

three days later, came back and tiled the floor, painted the walls and told me he would be back at the end of the week to continue. 
When cutting the tiles on my balcony and removing my old kitchen, there appears to be some damage to the paint work on my railings. Is this something I should look to get compensated or just something to be expected when having works done? 

He then tells me that I must pay a further £1000 from the balance as he needs to pay the tiler. As this would amount to 2/3s of the overall cost, I questioned why he needed this as he’d only just started the job. He said he’s had to buy materials and plaster (!). 

He then went on to say that I had to pay the £1000 by the end of the day and that it had to be paid directly into the tilers account as my fitter would have to pay tax on it if I paid it into his account.
I didn’t pay that day as I waiting for funds to transfer into my account.
the following day I was harassed with texts and phone calls demanding payment was made. I did eventually make the payment directly to his tiler. 

2 days later (yesterday), I still hadn’t heard from him as to when he was coming back. He told me he wouldn’t be here tomorrow but would drop by on Saturday evening. I called him said that wasn’t convenient, and that we’d agreed he would be back at the end of this week. 

He then got angry with me again and became extremely argumentative, telling me “I told you I’d be back Friday or Saturday. I can’t just come round to you with the tiler for a 30 minute job- that’s not how this industry works” 

When I mentioned that he harassed me for money earlier in the week and now does t appear to be committed to actually completing the work, he said “you told me you would pay the tiler. He needs his money, you were late paying blah blah blah”
anyway, eventually he agreed to come Saturday morning to finish off the floor and then coming back Monday to fit the units. 

IMO the walls and prep work aren’t finished to be fitting the units yet anyway. 

So, my question is, how do I handle this going forward? He has received £2600 of a £3600 quote and so far I have painted walls and some floor tiles. 

I’m extremely unhappy with his attitude and the disrespect he has shown me, not to mention he is breaking the law by having his tiler paid in cash. 

Obviously I need the kitchen fitted ASAP as the units are sitting in my living room but I’m just not happy with him. 

If anyone can offer advice or opinion I would be grateful. Thanks 

Doozergirl

You picked this person based on the price.  

I never really know what to say in situations like
this.  My advice would have been at the beginning.  

Don't rely on the likes of reviews on Rated People as your due diligence.  The person pays them for your lead.  There's no quality control.  It's a transaction for your personal details.  

Pick someone that you feel that you could see being friendly with outside of work.  The purpose isn't  to become friends, but if you couldn't tolerate an evening in their company, don't
hire them.  I trust my gut -
I'm talking about picking clients,
not just trades. 

Establish trust.  If you don't trust them at the start, it's going to head south very quickly.   If you don't think you can trust them, find someone else.  If you don't think you can trust anyone,
don't do do the work.  You reap what you sow.  

Always speak to previous clients.  Make sure that the jobs are similar to or larger than yours.  Being competent in one thing is no sign of proficiency in another.
 

Agree a payment schedule.    Don't pay a
deposit unless you know exactly what it's for.  Half a project cost on 'materials' doesn't leave much left in labour days.    My kitchen fitters cost me £200 a day.    8 days to screed,
tile, plaster, paint, dismantle,
skip,  build a kitchen, fit appliances and, cough, connect a gas hob is not realistic, but we knew that.  You've paid him half the money in advance and he's ahead of you, meaning he can use the labour to wield as power and do everything on his own terms.  This should have rung alarm bells at the beginning.  

Oh, and don't pick people based on price
unless you have absolutely done your due diligence and are confident that they are genuine.  
 

The short answer is that you don't now pay a
penny until completion.  Whether he tolerates that, I don't know, but the situation isn't going to improve much if you pay the rest of it.  If you do end up having to pay someone else to finish, I'd rather have paid less to this person.  

And stay calm.  

Le_Kirk

Is this the same as your other thread here: -
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6200224/kitchen-fitter-not-honouring-quote/p1
or do you have another house/kitchen.  Two threads doesn't equal twice the advice just twice the confusion.  If it is a different issue - apologies.

Doozergirl

Le_Kirk said:

Is this the same as your other thread here: -
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6200224/kitchen-fitter-not-honouring-quote/p1
or do you have another house/kitchen.  Two threads doesn't equal twice the advice just twice the confusion.  If it is a different issue - apologies.

It's turned into a full blown situation.  

Louise__3

Le_Kirk said:

Is this the same as your other thread here: -
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6200224/kitchen-fitter-not-honouring-quote/p1
or do you have another house/kitchen.  Two threads doesn't equal twice the advice just twice the confusion.  If it is a different issue - apologies.

It’s the same fitter but extension of original post, which is why I started a new thread. Apologies if this goes against forum etiquette.
FWIW The gas hob situation has been resolved (I’ve accepted this is an additional charge)

Jeepers_Creepers

This is a £3600 quote? And that quote includes taking out the old kitchen, screeding the floor, tiling, plastering, and fitting a new kitchen with appliances?

I don't know what size this kitchen is, but I suspect the problem begins with that quote - it's too cheap. It is especially too cheap if he reckons the tiler ALONE should receive £1k of that sum - only £2.6k for everything else? The problem seems to have been compounded by not agreeing in advance the staged payments.

How many kitchen units are involved here? What make are they? Any idea how much they cost? What size is this room?

Anyway, as said above, he's ahead of you in payments, so the first thing is to not hand over a single further penny. Make that clear - as Doozer says - 'calmly'. Just inform him that £2.6k paid out of a £3.6k quote without any units installed in unreasonable, and the balance of £1k will - you promise - be paid on completion of a satisfactory job. End of. You have taken advice, and this is reasonable and fair. Nothing else is. 

You then hopefully proceed on this understanding. I wouldn't get hung up too much on which days and what times he manages to turn up - I think that, given what's happened so far, you really just want to get the job done! For example, you mention that 'he wanted to come back on Sat evening but you said this wasn't convenient'? Can I ask why this wasn't convenient? I'm not at all suggesting the guy should come and go just as he pleases, but this is a delicately balanced situation which could turn on a little incident and have him walk away. It sounds as tho' he's juggling lots of jobs, so may well be trying to fit them all in, so I'd personally be inclined to cut him some slack for your own ultimate benefit; priority is to get the job done!

If he makes any suggestion of walking away unless you cough up more, you - calmly - tell him that's unreasonable due to the large %-age you've already given him and the stage of the job. If he argues and still threatens to go, you add that you will simply get someone else to finish the work and will sue him using MOneyClaim.org for the full cost of this - and you WILL win; I don't believe any judge on this planet would consider his behaviour reasonable or acceptable. 

This would also be the time to put the tenuous 'agreement' in writing, even in the form of a text; "Thank you for agreeing to continue the work to completion with £2.6k payment on your £3.6k quote. I confirm the balance of £1k will be paid..." or "I am sorry you refuse to continue the work having received £2.6k of the £3.6k quote, insisting of a further payment even though you have not even begun to install the new units. As I indicated to you on the 16th Oct, this leaves me with no choice but to have it completed by others and to sue you for the..." I think that seeing such concise words in print will help to focus his mind. 

I ask again - do you have LP on your house insurance? 

(When it comes to claimed rudeness, that's very much a subjective thing; he might consider you to be equally rude. What you should be doing it noting down WHAT was said - by both parties - and HOW it was said.)

Louise__3

Jeepers_Creepers said:

This is a £3600 quote? And that quote includes taking out the old kitchen, screeding the floor, tiling, plastering, and fitting a new kitchen with appliances?

I don't know what size this kitchen is, but I suspect the problem begins with that quote - it's too cheap. It is especially too cheap if he reckons the tiler ALONE should receive £1k of that sum - only £2.6k for everything else? The problem seems to have been compounded by not agreeing in advance the staged payments.

How many kitchen units are involved here? What make are they? Any idea how much they cost? What size is this room?

Anyway, as said above, he's ahead of you in payments, so the first thing is to not hand over a single further penny. Make that clear - as Doozer says - 'calmly'. Just inform him that £2.6k paid out of a £3.6k quote without any units installed in unreasonable, and the balance of £1k will - you promise - be paid on completion of a satisfactory job. End of. You have taken advice, and this is reasonable and fair. Nothing else is. 

You then hopefully proceed on this understanding. I wouldn't get hung up too much on which days and what times he manages to turn up - I think that, given what's happened so far, you really just want to get the job done! For example, you mention that 'he wanted to come back on Sat evening but you said this wasn't convenient'? Can I ask why this wasn't convenient? I'm not at all suggesting the guy should come and go just as he pleases, but this is a delicately balanced situation which could turn on a little incident and have him walk away. It sounds as tho' he's juggling lots of jobs, so may well be trying to fit them all in, so I'd personally be inclined to cut him some slack for your own ultimate benefit; priority is to get the job done!

If he makes any suggestion of walking away unless you cough up more, you - calmly - tell him that's unreasonable due to the large %-age you've already given him and the stage of the job. If he argues and still threatens to go, you add that you will simply get someone else to finish the work and will sue him using MOneyClaim.org for the full cost of this - and you WILL win; I don't believe any judge on this planet would consider his behaviour reasonable or acceptable. 

This would also be the time to put the tenuous 'agreement' in writing, even in the form of a text; "Thank you for agreeing to continue the work to completion with £2.6k payment on your £3.6k quote. I confirm the balance of £1k will be paid..." or "I am sorry you refuse to continue the work having received £2.6k of the £3.6k quote, insisting of a further payment even though you have not even begun to install the new units. As I indicated to you on the 16th Oct, this leaves me with no choice but to have it completed by others and to sue you for the..." I think that seeing such concise words in print will help to focus his mind. 

I ask again - do you have LP on your house insurance? 

(When it comes to claimed rudeness, that's very much a subjective thing; he might consider you to be equally rude. What you should be doing it noting down WHAT was said - by both parties - and HOW it was said.)

Thanks for your comments- I tend to agree with you on all points. The main goal is to get the kitchen fitted with as few problems as possible. 

It’s a small kitchen (I live in a flat) approx 10-12 units (from Wren) including appliances.  

I thought I’d done my research prior to confirming him- I had a few tradesman to quote, a couple were similar price to him, some more. I went with both price and ratings, which I guess cannot always be trusted (I’m now learning).

At the moment I am so anxious as to whether he will turn up when he says he will, and whether he will do the job properly when he is here, so I think the writing of the new “agreement” is a good idea and will hopefully give me some security
However, to make matters more complicated, the worktop is quartz so fitted by specialists.

This will inevitably delay the completion of the kitchen on his part. Therefore, in terms of settling the balance with him, he is asking for me to pay the remainder (minus £200 for fixing the tap etc once the worktop is in). 

In this instance I wonder what the best course of action is...will speak to citizens advice about this so I’m clear.  

I work from home so have been very accommodating with him for my availability whenever has suited him. It just so happens that this Saturday afternoon I have plans. It’s the only time I haven’t accommodated him. 

Totally understand re attitudes being subjective- I’m just feeling very anxious that I’ll be left without a functioning kitchen and overthinking things! 

Jeepers_Creepers

IF he completes EVERYTHING except what he can only do after the top is on, and IF the remaining bit is just the tap (anything else?), then I would be ok with holding back just £200 for this; £200 will cover another plumber coming in to fit the tap if needed.

(You are paying for the worktop separately?)

So, ONCE he completes EVERYTHING except the top (and tap), I personally think it would be ok to give him the 'final' £800, holding back the £200 for the tap.

Assuming, of course, that the work is of an adequate standard. 

kdotdotdotdot

Louise__3 said:

At the moment I am so anxious as to whether he will turn up when he says he will

You're worrying about something you have no control over.  Chances are, he won't.  It sounds like he's got a lot of jobs on and is moving trades between different jobs as and when they're needed, which means that even the best builder in the world is going to have times when they or one of their team just can't be where they're wanted when they're wanted.  Would be good if they could let you know, but there you have it.

As to the quality of the work, hard to judge at the moment.  Are you happy with what's been done so far, as far as you can tell?  It sounds like you're kind of committed to finishing the project with him anyway, so just keep an eye on things when the workers are in your home and stop stressing.    

williamgriffin

Against the law to pay in cash, really?

JIL

I cant see where cash has been paid.
Our kitchenfitter gave me an overall cost. This was broken down to his costs, the plastering costs, the plumber, the painter and the electrician. I paid each of them directly as their works were completed. I know the kitchen fitter had other jobs on and he also nipped out during the day to price up some new jobs. I paid for the job and not by the hour and I'm happy how it all turned out. He did have a waiting list, he wasnt the cheapest, I saw lots of pictures of his work and I know at least four people he had done previous work for. 
Hope it works out for you.