Get free cashback from shops after Brexit

daveyjp

No doubt regs are required to differentiate between a banking service and a retailing service.  If you don't buy its a banking service.

There are however plenty of shops (and local to us a library) that do provide cash without buying anything.  They have either an in store cash point or a Post Office counter.

London7766551

colsten said:

eskbanker said:

IvanOpinion said:

I am not seeing the incentive to shops to offer this service - so why would they?

This is recognised in the government paper linked above (at para 3.31), so the card schemes are addressing this:

In addition to having the correct mechanisms in place to manage risk and assign liability, the success of cashback without a purchase will also require the right commercial incentives to encourage merchants to offer this service. In 2020, card schemes, including VISA and Mastercard, announced incentives of 12 pence per transaction for retailers in order to encourage uptake of an alternative withdrawal service. 

This is an eminently reasonable stance, yet anything but evidence that there's any over bearing EU rule for cashback in shops, as @London7766551 asserted in the OP.  This could be one to add to the long list of EU myths made up by UK tabloids and their readers.

Please don't accuse me of making things up. It is my opinion that this type of law is what causes trouble for the EU. What is the point of it? Have I denied the responses above? nope, I even thanked a post that said the actual fact that the current EU law does not prevent cashback strictly without a purchase.  You always seem to have issue with my posts with a arrogant attitude I have noticed. Just be civil it isn't hard instead of accusing posters of making things up.


I would add this story has been reported by the Gurdian. Hardly call that anti EU

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2020/oct/15/plan-for-uk-shops-to-offer-cashback-without-a-purchase

eskbanker

On the subject of the specific regulatory provisions, I believe the relevant reference is parargraph 2 of Schedule 1 of the Payment Services Regulations 2017, listing services not deemed to be regulated payment services:

2.  The following do not constitute payment services —

[...]

(e) services where cash is provided by the payee to the payer as part of a payment transaction for the purchase of goods or services following an explicit request by the payer immediately before the execution of the payment transaction;

For the avoidance of doubt, I certainly don't subscribe to the notion that these regulations were imposed on a reluctant UK by the dastardly EU, and understand the UK to have been a very active and willing participant in the development of EU financial regulations.  The announcement of this concept in the March 2020 Budget has led to the consultation being initiated now, but I suspect that (as with many other popular political ideas) it could very easily run into substantial obstacles when the implications of relaxing such controls are properly thought through by experts....

colsten

Ah well, if the UK Government something "is difficult due to EU laws around payment services", that surely must make it true. As the UK Government wouldn't lie to us, would they 🤣🤣🤣

born_again

Ballard said:

born_again said:

eskbanker said:

Only a Daily Mail reader could contrive that already heavily-spun story into "Get free cashback from shops after Brexit", when cashback is already free!

Except the big change is you will not need to buy anything.

Personally I can see a lot of shops saying no chance. Having to carry extra cash just in case someone pops in for some.
 While in practise it sounds a good idea. I'm sure both shop owners & their insurance companies will not be best impressed.

Unless shops are compelled to give cashback when requested I’d have thought that they’d be happy with this. If they have sufficient cash they can give it to a customer in exchange for an electronic payment. Less cash lying around or taken to the bank so less chance of theft. 

I rarely use cash so it wouldn’t make a difference to me but I’d have thought that it would be a big help to some communities who don’t have easy access to ATMs. 

Except they are going to have that cash in the till in case someone wants some. So will lead to higher amounts of cash in till and the protentional for greater Cash & grab. They will target area's where no post office or ATM's.
Plenty of shops do not offer it now, even if you buy anything. So really can't see a massive take up. 

You are also forgetting the charge for giving out that cash. Don't think that it will be for free for retailers do you?

Ballard

born_again said:

Ballard said:

born_again said:

eskbanker said:

Only a Daily Mail reader could contrive that already heavily-spun story into "Get free cashback from shops after Brexit", when cashback is already free!

Except the big change is you will not need to buy anything.

Personally I can see a lot of shops saying no chance. Having to carry extra cash just in case someone pops in for some.
 While in practise it sounds a good idea. I'm sure both shop owners & their insurance companies will not be best impressed.

Unless shops are compelled to give cashback when requested I’d have thought that they’d be happy with this. If they have sufficient cash they can give it to a customer in exchange for an electronic payment. Less cash lying around or taken to the bank so less chance of theft. 

I rarely use cash so it wouldn’t make a difference to me but I’d have thought that it would be a big help to some communities who don’t have easy access to ATMs. 

Except they are going to have that cash in the till in case someone wants some. So will lead to higher amounts of cash in till and the protentional for greater Cash & grab. They will target area's where no post office or ATM's.
Plenty of shops do not offer it now, even if you buy anything. So really can't see a massive take up. 

You are also forgetting the charge for giving out that cash. Don't think that it will be for free for retailers do you?

Shops all have a float as things stand and they won’t want to go below a certain amount in their tolls. I imagine that they’d only be willing to give cashback if they’ve taken sufficient cash from other customers during the day. It wouldn’t make sense for them to preempt withdrawals and increase their float. 

There may or may not be a charge to the shop. If a fee is charged then it’d be up to the shops to decide whether they want to swallow it and offer the service. Don’t forget, though, that there is also a fee to banks when people withdraw from ATMs so they may just view it as an alternative to ATM charges and not pass it on. If someone takes cashback they more than likely wouldn’t need to visit an ATM so the bank probably wouldn’t lose anything. 

phillw

bundoran said:
Big shops have tended to like cashback because of the reasons outlined by Ballard. However cash transactions have fallen substantially and during the pandemic I've twice heard cashiers - in two different supermarkets - refuse cashback because they didn't have the cash available in their tills.

Without the EU fighting for your human rights, the UK government is likely to accelerate cashless society because it is cheaper & easier for mass surveillance. It's mostly old people and criminals that want to keep cash anyway and as old people die they are replaced with old people who are more used to going cashless.

Passing round dirty bits of paper and metal that depreciate in your pocket, just seems a terrible idea even before covid. I predict we'll likely see higher prices charged when paying in cash once the EU aren't there to protect us post brexit. Not sure what addicts will roll up for snorting though, maybe sales of bamboo straws will skyrocket.

Is there a real rule that prevents them from offering cashback without a sale, what is to stop them from registering so they can?? It seems more likely that they don't offer cashback without purchases because of the processing fees and the cost for taking up a till, but the EU has actually reduced the fees (prior to the EU doing that for us there was a higher minimum spend before you could get cash back). So if that was repealed after brexit then surely the fees are more likely to go up and less likely to be able to get "cashback" from a till (but you might be more likely to get "cashback" from your card issuer). You're still tying a till up though, so I don't see why the shop will want to.

One advantage of shops offering cashback is it would accelerate removal of ATM & then once they are all gone the shops can just decide to stop accepting cash and then naturally they'd stop offering cash back.

You can still use cheques to pay people, now that you can pay them in with your mobile then there really is no need for cash.

Yahoo_Mail

phillw said:

bundoran said:
Big shops have tended to like cashback because of the reasons outlined by Ballard. However cash transactions have fallen substantially and during the pandemic I've twice heard cashiers - in two different supermarkets - refuse cashback because they didn't have the cash available in their tills.

Is there a real rule that prevents them from offering cashback without a sale, what is to stop them from registering so they can?? 

Cost.

They'd need to be FCA registered to do it. Do you think your local petrol station will do that?  Or your local corner shop, newsagents?  I doubt even Tesco or Asda are particularly interested in having their retail arms being registered with the FCA when they can get around it by selling you a newspaper or a pack of chewing gum and giving you cashback.

London7766551

phillw said:

bundoran said:
Big shops have tended to like cashback because of the reasons outlined by Ballard. However cash transactions have fallen substantially and during the pandemic I've twice heard cashiers - in two different supermarkets - refuse cashback because they didn't have the cash available in their tills.

Without the EU fighting for your human rights, the UK government is likely to accelerate cashless society because it is cheaper & easier for mass surveillance. It's mostly old people and criminals that want to keep cash anyway and as old people die they are replaced with old people who are more used to going cashless.

Passing round dirty bits of paper and metal that depreciate in your pocket, just seems a terrible idea even before covid. I predict we'll likely see higher prices charged when paying in cash once the EU aren't there to protect us post brexit. Not sure what addicts will roll up for snorting though, maybe sales of bamboo straws will skyrocket.

Is there a real rule that prevents them from offering cashback without a sale, what is to stop them from registering so they can?? It seems more likely that they don't offer cashback without purchases because of the processing fees and the cost for taking up a till, but the EU has actually reduced the fees (prior to the EU doing that for us there was a higher minimum spend before you could get cash back). So if that was repealed after brexit then surely the fees are more likely to go up and less likely to be able to get "cashback" from a till (but you might be more likely to get "cashback" from your card issuer). You're still tying a till up though, so I don't see why the shop will want to.

One advantage of shops offering cashback is it would accelerate removal of ATM & then once they are all gone the shops can just decide to stop accepting cash and then naturally they'd stop offering cash back.

You can still use cheques to pay people, now that you can pay them in with your mobile then there really is no need for cash.

Like the EU fights for the rights of LGBT in Poland, or for the rights of Catalonians in Spain?

The UK government can change every five years, this is something which is bizarrely overlooked in the whole B word incident. In other words, while I have no doubt the Tories may rip up some of our rights, (some EU directed rights are too strict but others are very good) we could just as well vote in Labour or the Lib Dems in 2024, and become even more liberal than the EU. We don't need the EU to "protect" us, the UK is a free and open society. People want rights, and if those rights are degraded enough, the government will lose support. We were a decent society before joining the common market, and we will continue to be so after we have left.

The government in fact has stated they wish to protect cash. I fully accept cash is old fashioned and in 20 years it will be gone or almost gone. But we have to accept there is a generation that still requires cash, some people just can't use cards. They are 80, 90 and it is not going to happen with most of them. When I say gone I mean it won't be used anywhere but will still be valid for use at banks etc. I am sure the addicts can buy some old bank notes from ebay and carry on as they are. That or some paper straws from McDonalds.

The rule is discussed at length further up the thread but strictly no.

Do not be so keen to hand over every aspect of your life to the multinationals, once the legacy systems are gone they will have total control. I am not saying they will do something bad, but cash is free of that control. I can pay whoever I want without being tracked. I can actually hold it in my hand. If I want I can put it under my bed, throw it into the air, give it out to anyone I want. That is freedom for you.

colsten

London7766551 said:

, (some EU directed rights are too strict but others are very good) 

Goodness me, how can a right people have be to too strict? And btw, the European Human Rights Act exists independent of the EU, as does the European Court of Human Rights.

No need to respond, I am out of this thread.