Get free cashback from shops after Brexit

London7766551

IvanOpinion said:

Cashless can't come quick enough - dirty filthy unhygenic stuff. 
I carry an absolute minimal amount of cash these days (at the minute it is £1.40 in my pocket and a £10 note in my wallet).  If I get change I throw coppers and 5p coins in the bin (used to put them in a charity box but then realised that one of the significant arguments against cashless is charities who want this small change).

I am not seeing the incentive to shops to offer this service - so why would they?

Somewhat over the top description of cash. You could equally say anything you touch in a shop is dirty. Just think how many hands it has been touched by to reach your basket.

Also you could get a money box to save all your coins and cash them in after a few years. Putting money in the bin is just weird.

I believe many shops want to get people in through the doors, most people won't use the cashback, some people will. A small number will go into the shop for this and might buy something anyway.

colsten

London7766551 said:

colsten said:

Fantastic. Just what we need in Covid-19 times - extra close-contact touchpoints! We don't want it to make difficult for the virus to spread, do we. And shame on all those of our shops who urge people to pay contactless, and specifically on the likes of Greggs who now only accept contactless payments 😜

BTW, if I wanted to, in Germany I could withdraw cash, without charge, up to 200 Euros, with my DBK credit card in REWE, Penny, Netto, Edeka/Reichelt, Aldi Süd, in Drogeriemarkt dm and DIY store Toom. Granted, I need to spend at least 5 Euros at the retailer, but that seems fair enough to me - why should they provide me with a service if I don't spend any money with them? 
Last time I checked, Germany were still in the EU, so I am not entirely sure what the over bearing EU rule is.

Also, if you really need cash and don't have access to a bank or ATM, most UK banks offer free banking services, incl. cash withdrawals, at Post Offices

Well I think this is a long term thing, Covid may be gone in about five years hopefully. Cash will be around for longer than that.

You have just described the law, in the fact that you must spend money at the store to get the cash back in the EU. The UK law change would mean there is no requirement for this. I don't understand why this law was required.

Some places don't have a bank or a post office.

Have you got a link to that EU law, please?

London7766551

colsten said:

London7766551 said:

colsten said:

Fantastic. Just what we need in Covid-19 times - extra close-contact touchpoints! We don't want it to make difficult for the virus to spread, do we. And shame on all those of our shops who urge people to pay contactless, and specifically on the likes of Greggs who now only accept contactless payments 😜

BTW, if I wanted to, in Germany I could withdraw cash, without charge, up to 200 Euros, with my DBK credit card in REWE, Penny, Netto, Edeka/Reichelt, Aldi Süd, in Drogeriemarkt dm and DIY store Toom. Granted, I need to spend at least 5 Euros at the retailer, but that seems fair enough to me - why should they provide me with a service if I don't spend any money with them? 
Last time I checked, Germany were still in the EU, so I am not entirely sure what the over bearing EU rule is.

Also, if you really need cash and don't have access to a bank or ATM, most UK banks offer free banking services, incl. cash withdrawals, at Post Offices

Well I think this is a long term thing, Covid may be gone in about five years hopefully. Cash will be around for longer than that.

You have just described the law, in the fact that you must spend money at the store to get the cash back in the EU. The UK law change would mean there is no requirement for this. I don't understand why this law was required.

Some places don't have a bank or a post office.

Have you got a link to that EU law, please?

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELEX:32015L2366&from=EN
DIRECTIVES
DIRECTIVE (EU) 2015/2366 OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL of 25 November 2015
on payment services in the internal market, amending Directives 2002/65/EC, 2009/110/EC and 2013/36/EU and Regulation (EU) No 1093/2010, and repealing Directive 2007/64/EC
(Text with EEA relevance)

Enjoy

IvanOpinion

London7766551 said:

IvanOpinion said:

Cashless can't come quick enough - dirty filthy unhygenic stuff. 
I carry an absolute minimal amount of cash these days (at the minute it is £1.40 in my pocket and a £10 note in my wallet).  If I get change I throw coppers and 5p coins in the bin (used to put them in a charity box but then realised that one of the significant arguments against cashless is charities who want this small change).

I am not seeing the incentive to shops to offer this service - so why would they?

Somewhat over the top description of cash. You could equally say anything you touch in a shop is dirty. Just think how many hands it has been touched by to reach your basket.

Also you could get a money box to save all your coins and cash them in after a few years. Putting money in the bin is just weird.

I believe many shops want to get people in through the doors, most people won't use the cashback, some people will. A small number will go into the shop for this and might buy something anyway.

One of the most unhygenic dirty things we touch on a daily basis is coinage.  It really is filthy, men in particular having it gentle caress their crotches (and that has been proven).
I don't need or want a moneybox, that is what banks are for.

eskbanker

London7766551 said:

You have just described the law, in the fact that you must spend money at the store to get the cash back in the EU. The UK law change would mean there is no requirement for this. I don't understand why this law was required.

Merchants can currently offer cashback without purchases so that's an oversimplification, but doing so is treated as providing regulated payment services, which naturally imposes more controls and is therefore seen as unattractive, as explained at paragraph 3.29 of https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/926666/Call_for_Evidence_-_Access_to_Cash_15.10.2020.pdf

However, the treatment of cashback where a purchase via card payment is not being made as part of the transaction (“cashback without a purchase”) is treated differently under financial services law, and card scheme rules. Cashback without a purchase is not explicitly exempted from the definition of a payment service under the EU’s Second Payment Services Directive, as transposed into UK law through the Payment Services Regulations (2017). As a result of the Directive, cashback without a purchase constitutes a regulated payment service. This is distinct to cashback with a purchase, which is explicitly exempted from regulated payment services under the Directive. Generally, only suitably registered or authorised businesses such as banks and payment institutions are permitted to provide payment services in the UK. Absent legislative changes, the provision of cashback without a purchase would require that either: 

a) merchants are registered or authorised to provide the regulated service or 

b) merchants act as an agent of a payment service provider, such as the acquirer or the customer’s card issuer

eskbanker

IvanOpinion said:

I am not seeing the incentive to shops to offer this service - so why would they?

This is recognised in the government paper linked above (at para 3.31), so the card schemes are addressing this:

In addition to having the correct mechanisms in place to manage risk and assign liability, the success of cashback without a purchase will also require the right commercial incentives to encourage merchants to offer this service. In 2020, card schemes, including VISA and Mastercard, announced incentives of 12 pence per transaction for retailers in order to encourage uptake of an alternative withdrawal service. 

colsten

London7766551 said:

colsten said:

London7766551 said:

colsten said:

Fantastic. Just what we need in Covid-19 times - extra close-contact touchpoints! We don't want it to make difficult for the virus to spread, do we. And shame on all those of our shops who urge people to pay contactless, and specifically on the likes of Greggs who now only accept contactless payments 😜

BTW, if I wanted to, in Germany I could withdraw cash, without charge, up to 200 Euros, with my DBK credit card in REWE, Penny, Netto, Edeka/Reichelt, Aldi Süd, in Drogeriemarkt dm and DIY store Toom. Granted, I need to spend at least 5 Euros at the retailer, but that seems fair enough to me - why should they provide me with a service if I don't spend any money with them? 
Last time I checked, Germany were still in the EU, so I am not entirely sure what the over bearing EU rule is.

Also, if you really need cash and don't have access to a bank or ATM, most UK banks offer free banking services, incl. cash withdrawals, at Post Offices

Well I think this is a long term thing, Covid may be gone in about five years hopefully. Cash will be around for longer than that.

You have just described the law, in the fact that you must spend money at the store to get the cash back in the EU. The UK law change would mean there is no requirement for this. I don't understand why this law was required.

Some places don't have a bank or a post office.

Have you got a link to that EU law, please?

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELEX:32015L2366&from=EN
DIRECTIVES
DIRECTIVE (EU) 2015/2366 OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL of 25 November 2015
on payment services in the internal market, amending Directives 2002/65/EC, 2009/110/EC and 2013/36/EU and Regulation (EU) No 1093/2010, and repealing Directive 2007/64/EC
(Text with EEA relevance)

Enjoy

Thanks. I have not found anything in there that says a supermarket / shop must not offer cashback to people who have not made a purchase. May be I have overlooked the relevant clause(s) but perhaps you can kindly point them out for all of us?

colsten

eskbanker said:

IvanOpinion said:

I am not seeing the incentive to shops to offer this service - so why would they?

This is recognised in the government paper linked above (at para 3.31), so the card schemes are addressing this:

In addition to having the correct mechanisms in place to manage risk and assign liability, the success of cashback without a purchase will also require the right commercial incentives to encourage merchants to offer this service. In 2020, card schemes, including VISA and Mastercard, announced incentives of 12 pence per transaction for retailers in order to encourage uptake of an alternative withdrawal service. 

This is an eminently reasonable stance, yet anything but evidence that there's any over bearing EU rule for cashback in shops, as @London7766551 asserted in the OP.  This could be one to add to the long list of EU myths made up by UK tabloids and their readers.

whitesmith

There is no UK law that prohibits or allows cashback. The requirement to make a purchase to get it was a Visa (or Mastercard) rule:
https://chargebacks911.com/knowledge-base/cash-back-debit-card-transactions-need-know/

Each card network has its own regulations regarding what qualifies for cash back. For example, Visa shared the following guidelines.

• Consumers will only be allowed to receive cash back if the issuing bank permits it.
• Cash back should only be provided if an electronic terminal is used to process the transaction. Any transaction made with a manual imprint machine doesn't qualify for cash back.
• A purchase must be made to receive cash back. (*)
• Only debit cards qualify; consumers cannot receive cash back with a credit card

(*) Presumable this Visa rule is what is changing

London7766551

colsten said:

London7766551 said:

colsten said:

London7766551 said:

colsten said:

Fantastic. Just what we need in Covid-19 times - extra close-contact touchpoints! We don't want it to make difficult for the virus to spread, do we. And shame on all those of our shops who urge people to pay contactless, and specifically on the likes of Greggs who now only accept contactless payments 😜

BTW, if I wanted to, in Germany I could withdraw cash, without charge, up to 200 Euros, with my DBK credit card in REWE, Penny, Netto, Edeka/Reichelt, Aldi Süd, in Drogeriemarkt dm and DIY store Toom. Granted, I need to spend at least 5 Euros at the retailer, but that seems fair enough to me - why should they provide me with a service if I don't spend any money with them? 
Last time I checked, Germany were still in the EU, so I am not entirely sure what the over bearing EU rule is.

Also, if you really need cash and don't have access to a bank or ATM, most UK banks offer free banking services, incl. cash withdrawals, at Post Offices

Well I think this is a long term thing, Covid may be gone in about five years hopefully. Cash will be around for longer than that.

You have just described the law, in the fact that you must spend money at the store to get the cash back in the EU. The UK law change would mean there is no requirement for this. I don't understand why this law was required.

Some places don't have a bank or a post office.

Have you got a link to that EU law, please?

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELEX:32015L2366&from=EN
DIRECTIVES
DIRECTIVE (EU) 2015/2366 OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL of 25 November 2015
on payment services in the internal market, amending Directives 2002/65/EC, 2009/110/EC and 2013/36/EU and Regulation (EU) No 1093/2010, and repealing Directive 2007/64/EC
(Text with EEA relevance)

Enjoy

Thanks. I have not found anything in there that says a supermarket / shop must not offer cashback to people who have not made a purchase. May be I have overlooked the relevant clause(s) but perhaps you can kindly point them out for all of us?

I am not qualified I am not a lawyer. I won't pretend to understand this document. This is the law that is linked to/referenced by the press and UK government. Also MSE!

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/2020/10/shoppers-to-be-able-to-get-cashback-without-buying-anything-unde/