Hermes still charging for signatures - why, when they're not collecting them?

TK8Anorak

Firstly, I get why some parcel companies aren't collecting customer signatures at the moment.  The more sensible ones will place the parcel at the doorstep and either take a photo of it, or tell you that they will sign for it on your behalf, which is great.

However, I've recently sent a parcel and blindly accepted Hermes' offer to add a signature on delivery, thinking the courier would sign once delivery is done or something similar.  Nope.  Once delivery happens, all you get is a link saying "To conduct contact-free deliveries, we are not collecting signatures.  More info: goherm.es/coronavirus".

So, if they're actively 'not collecting signatures', why are they still charging for them?  Can we get refunds?  Customer service is a nightmare to get through to and their online bot is next to useless.

davidmcn

If you follow that link it explains what they're doing instead of a signature, which I presume is more than the standard "chucking it over the hedge" service.

Sandtree

Not looked at the Hermes' site to see their exact policy but my understanding....

• No signature - will leave it in a "safe place" - eg throw it over the garden fence or leave it on the front doorstep with the mat on top of the 45cm high box in plain view of the street
• Signature - will only leave it with a person be that at the delivery address, neighbour or receptionist but wont collected a signature - some want a photo of the person with package

If Hermes are not differentiating between the two and are clear of this on their website then question is more about why are people buying the service than why are they selling it.

Recorded delivery has always been the same, under UK law a letter posted is legally considered to have been delivered 2 days later for a 1st class stamp. So what is the point of paying extra for a recorded delivery when a certificate of posting is free? Even more of a waste is when they are sent to large companies who just get a sack of recorded and special delivery and just sign against the whole consignment. Worst of all is sending something like a LBA by recorded delivery as it gives the recipient the heads up and they can refuse delivery whereas a standard delivery gets put through the letter box and is considered delivered.

davidmcn

Sandtree said:

Recorded delivery has always been the same, under UK law a letter posted is legally considered to have been delivered 2 days later for a 1st class stamp. So what is the point of paying extra for a recorded delivery when a certificate of posting is free?

Depends on which "law" you're talking about, for many purposes it does have to be sent by (at least) recorded delivery.

Sandtree

davidmcn said:

Sandtree said:

Recorded delivery has always been the same, under UK law a letter posted is legally considered to have been delivered 2 days later for a 1st class stamp. So what is the point of paying extra for a recorded delivery when a certificate of posting is free?

Depends on which "law" you're talking about, for many purposes it does have to be sent by (at least) recorded delivery.

For example?

 Lord Abbott (Chief Justice) in Walter v Haynes (1824) “Where a letter, fully and particularly directed to a person at his usual place of residence, is proved to have been put into the Post Office, this is equivalent to proof of a delivery into the hands of that person; because it is a safe and reasonable presumption that is reaches its destination. If a letter is sent by the post, it is prima facie proof, until the contrary be proved that, the party to whom it is addressed received it in due course.”

Its a well established tenant under english law that proof of sending is proof of receipt unless the recipient can prove they didnt receive it (namely it was sent to the wrong address)

davidmcn

Sandtree said:

davidmcn said:

Sandtree said:

Recorded delivery has always been the same, under UK law a letter posted is legally considered to have been delivered 2 days later for a 1st class stamp. So what is the point of paying extra for a recorded delivery when a certificate of posting is free?

Depends on which "law" you're talking about, for many purposes it does have to be sent by (at least) recorded delivery.

For example?

Pretty standard for the notices clauses in contracts, leases etc to require service by recorded delivery (or at least, to regard that as a method where service is deemed to have taken place if sent by that method, and not by ordinary post).
Service of citations in Scottish civil cases needs to be (successful) delivery by recorded delivery, failing which you need a Sheriff Officer to turn up at the doorstep.

Sandtree

davidmcn said:

Sandtree said:

davidmcn said:

Sandtree said:

Recorded delivery has always been the same, under UK law a letter posted is legally considered to have been delivered 2 days later for a 1st class stamp. So what is the point of paying extra for a recorded delivery when a certificate of posting is free?

Depends on which "law" you're talking about, for many purposes it does have to be sent by (at least) recorded delivery.

For example?

Pretty standard for the notices clauses in contracts, leases etc to require service by recorded delivery (or at least, to regard that as a method where service is deemed to have taken place if sent by that method, and not by ordinary post).

Contracts can say whatever they want, could require that notices are written on velum with a swan quill and delivered by horseback postman, but they are a contractual requirement not a legal requirement... that said a quick glance at the dozen or so contracts on my desk (I need to tidy) and all say about notice being served at and gives both a postal address for CoSec or even an email address for CoSec.

I will bow to others knowledge on Scottish law.

mikb

It's not just Hermes at it: Royal Mail quite understandably stopped collecting signatures.

No one has told Post Office Counters to stop up-selling "Signed For".

I can deal with the constant "mishearing" of me requesting 2nd class as "First Class" when dealing with a POC staff member that hasn't realised I won't fall for it, but it's just dishonest to chivvy people into paying extra for a signature you know won't be collected.

custardy

mikb said:

It's not just Hermes at it: Royal Mail quite understandably stopped collecting signatures.

No one has told Post Office Counters to stop up-selling "Signed For".

I can deal with the constant "mishearing" of me requesting 2nd class as "First Class" when dealing with a POC staff member that hasn't realised I won't fall for it, but it's just dishonest to chivvy people into paying extra for a signature you know won't be collected.

Except signed for also offers enhanced compensation 

Murphybear

Sandtree said:

davidmcn said:

Sandtree said:

Recorded delivery has always been the same, under UK law a letter posted is legally considered to have been delivered 2 days later for a 1st class stamp. So what is the point of paying extra for a recorded delivery when a certificate of posting is free?

Depends on which "law" you're talking about, for many purposes it does have to be sent by (at least) recorded delivery.

For example?

 Lord Abbott (Chief Justice) in Walter v Haynes (1824) “Where a letter, fully and particularly directed to a person at his usual place of residence, is proved to have been put into the Post Office, this is equivalent to proof of a delivery into the hands of that person; because it is a safe and reasonable presumption that is reaches its destination. If a letter is sent by the post, it is prima facie proof, until the contrary be proved that, the party to whom it is addressed received it in due course.”

Its a well established tenant under english law that proof of sending is proof of receipt unless the recipient can prove they didnt receive it (namely it was sent to the wrong address)

That made me laugh 

red_boots2

davidmcn said:

If you follow that link it explains what they're doing instead of a signature, which I presume is more than the standard "chucking it over the hedge" service.

Nope... I paid for a signature and they still threw it over the fence