Being held to "pre sign up" terms

t3rm3y2

Hi we received letters/notifications probably 18mths maybe longer ago of a new provider that were planning to I stall ftth, they wanted people to pre sign up to get numbers so they could push ahead or cancel the plans if not enough. I signed up and also ticked to have a sip phone. Roll on to now and they have installed the ftth but I said I didn't want the phone any more as my partner wants to keep the copper line so it's separate in case I tenet problems , plus we don't really use it so didn't see point. But the ISP are saying that we pre agreed to take the phone and have to have it. The company is Essex based. County broadband. Any thing we can say or do to stop the sip phone and not have to have it?

Farway

Only by their goodwill & maybe you paying them some sort of cancellation fee

You could try explaining CV19 has changed your needs etc and hope for the best

iniltous

What is the difference in price between what you want and what they say you agreed to ?, if they have installed FTTP/FTTH, then adding some type of VOIP telephone service presumably shouldn’t add much cost, I would think it would be a few £ max per month, hopefully you are not someone who thinks if a company markets their products as £20 line rental and £5 broadband to make a total of £25/month ‘offer’, then if you only want broadband it follows that the price will only be £5/month...company’s use this ( dishonest ) marketing to so they can make their broadband look cheaper than it really is.
Obviously  there should be anything stopping you keeping your current copper phone line and having an additional phone service over the FTTP.
If it’s a case that keeping the copper phone service comes with a monthly bill of somewhere around £15-£22 a month , then whatever this  FTTP provider charges for BB and phone , I doubt it would be £15-£22 cheaper if they provided what you want, just  broadband without a phone service.
On a more general note, these type of providers, as you say, want people to ‘commit’ to taking their services before they spend any money, but ‘legally’ I don’t see how it’s enforced, say you indicated your willingness to take their service , and in the meantime your situation changed ( like you were moving from that address ) I doubt they can say you cannot move because of this, and TBH, they work on percentages, if they needed a 60% sign up before they work started, they must factor in that the won’t get everyone , so would be happy with 45-50% , but in your case it seems it’s not you don’t want the FTTP , it’s the minor add on of the phone service.

Takmon

iniltous said:

What is the difference in price between what you want and what they say you agreed to ?, if they have installed FTTP/FTTH, then adding some type of VOIP telephone service presumably shouldn’t add much cost, I would think it would be a few £ max per month, hopefully you are not someone who thinks if a company markets their products as £20 line rental and £5 broadband to make a total of £25/month ‘offer’, then if you only want broadband it follows that the price will only be £5/month...company’s use this ( dishonest ) marketing to so they can make their broadband look cheaper than it really is.
Obviously  there should be anything stopping you keeping your current copper phone line and having an additional phone service over the FTTP.
If it’s a case that keeping the copper phone service comes with a monthly bill of somewhere around £15-£22 a month , then whatever this  FTTP provider charges for BB and phone , I doubt it would be £15-£22 cheaper if they provided what you want, just  broadband without a phone service.
On a more general note, these type of providers, as you say, want people to ‘commit’ to taking their services before they spend any money, but ‘legally’ I don’t see how it’s enforced, say you indicated your willingness to take their service , and in the meantime your situation changed ( like you were moving from that address ) I doubt they can say you cannot move because of this, and TBH, they work on percentages, if they needed a 60% sign up before they work started, they must factor in that the won’t get everyone , so would be happy with 45-50% , but in your case it seems it’s not you don’t want the FTTP , it’s the minor add on of the phone service.

How is it dishonest? The phone line can be provided without broadband so it makes sense to price these separately because broadband is an addon. Many services have basic packages and then have extra prices for addons and this is in no way misleading.

onomatopoeia99

Takmon said:

iniltous said:

What is the difference in price between what you want and what they say you agreed to ?, if they have installed FTTP/FTTH, then adding some type of VOIP telephone service presumably shouldn’t add much cost, I would think it would be a few £ max per month, hopefully you are not someone who thinks if a company markets their products as £20 line rental and £5 broadband to make a total of £25/month ‘offer’, then if you only want broadband it follows that the price will only be £5/month...company’s use this ( dishonest ) marketing to so they can make their broadband look cheaper than it really is.
Obviously  there should be anything stopping you keeping your current copper phone line and having an additional phone service over the FTTP.
If it’s a case that keeping the copper phone service comes with a monthly bill of somewhere around £15-£22 a month , then whatever this  FTTP provider charges for BB and phone , I doubt it would be £15-£22 cheaper if they provided what you want, just  broadband without a phone service.
On a more general note, these type of providers, as you say, want people to ‘commit’ to taking their services before they spend any money, but ‘legally’ I don’t see how it’s enforced, say you indicated your willingness to take their service , and in the meantime your situation changed ( like you were moving from that address ) I doubt they can say you cannot move because of this, and TBH, they work on percentages, if they needed a 60% sign up before they work started, they must factor in that the won’t get everyone , so would be happy with 45-50% , but in your case it seems it’s not you don’t want the FTTP , it’s the minor add on of the phone service.

How is it dishonest? The phone line can be provided without broadband so it makes sense to price these separately because broadband is an addon. Many services have basic packages and then have extra prices for addons and this is in no way misleading.

Broadband can be provided without line rental to the broadband supplier as well.  I get my line rental and voice service from one provider and my FTTC broadband from another.  If I didn't take line rental and voice from the first I'd have to pay line rental on top of my broadband to the second and that's what a lot of people don't get, and why OFCOM mandated that the phone + broadband price is displayed in all advertising.

iniltous

Takmon said:

iniltous said:

What is the difference in price between what you want and what they say you agreed to ?, if they have installed FTTP/FTTH, then adding some type of VOIP telephone service presumably shouldn’t add much cost, I would think it would be a few £ max per month, hopefully you are not someone who thinks if a company markets their products as £20 line rental and £5 broadband to make a total of £25/month ‘offer’, then if you only want broadband it follows that the price will only be £5/month...company’s use this ( dishonest ) marketing to so they can make their broadband look cheaper than it really is.
Obviously  there should be anything stopping you keeping your current copper phone line and having an additional phone service over the FTTP.
If it’s a case that keeping the copper phone service comes with a monthly bill of somewhere around £15-£22 a month , then whatever this  FTTP provider charges for BB and phone , I doubt it would be £15-£22 cheaper if they provided what you want, just  broadband without a phone service.
On a more general note, these type of providers, as you say, want people to ‘commit’ to taking their services before they spend any money, but ‘legally’ I don’t see how it’s enforced, say you indicated your willingness to take their service , and in the meantime your situation changed ( like you were moving from that address ) I doubt they can say you cannot move because of this, and TBH, they work on percentages, if they needed a 60% sign up before they work started, they must factor in that the won’t get everyone , so would be happy with 45-50% , but in your case it seems it’s not you don’t want the FTTP , it’s the minor add on of the phone service.

How is it dishonest? The phone line can be provided without broadband so it makes sense to price these separately because broadband is an addon. Many services have basic packages and then have extra prices for addons and this is in no way misleading.

The ‘dishonesty’ is in marketing something that is dependent on something else and lumping all the costs onto one element, you wouldn’t expect a car dealer to advertise ‘Free Car’ and in the small print find that the T&C’s state  you have to purchase a set of alloy wheels from them to qualify for the free car, and the alloys are the same price as the identical a car for sale somewhere else.
Some may be naive enough to believe a broadband provider that charges £25/month but chooses to divide the £25 as £20 line rental and £5 broadband ( when the true cost of the line rental is £7 not £20 )  is a true reflection of the costs , it isn’t and has never been, but if you market your broadband this way in the past , anyone searching for cheap broadband would find this supposedly great deal for £5 , when the total cost of £25 is nothing special, that’s what’s dishonest.
It’s not clear why you chose to highlight it, I quite agree advertising rules  made quoting the entire price the ‘headline’ price in adverts , but that doesn’t stop anyone dividing the cost down into supposedly line rental and broadband , if fact using £25 and stating ‘includes line rental’ , to some , who have been conditioned over the years to think that line rental is £20 , would think broadband must be £5.
As far as the OP, I was attempting to point out that if whatever FTTP provider they have had quoted £25 for FTTP line rental , phone and broadband, there will little or no reduction if the ‘phone’ isn’t required.
If you want to believe that in a ‘deal’ that has £25 as the total cost , and splits the costs as £20 line rental and £5 broadband, is an honest division of costs, crack on mate

Takmon

iniltous said:

Takmon said:

iniltous said:

What is the difference in price between what you want and what they say you agreed to ?, if they have installed FTTP/FTTH, then adding some type of VOIP telephone service presumably shouldn’t add much cost, I would think it would be a few £ max per month, hopefully you are not someone who thinks if a company markets their products as £20 line rental and £5 broadband to make a total of £25/month ‘offer’, then if you only want broadband it follows that the price will only be £5/month...company’s use this ( dishonest ) marketing to so they can make their broadband look cheaper than it really is.
Obviously  there should be anything stopping you keeping your current copper phone line and having an additional phone service over the FTTP.
If it’s a case that keeping the copper phone service comes with a monthly bill of somewhere around £15-£22 a month , then whatever this  FTTP provider charges for BB and phone , I doubt it would be £15-£22 cheaper if they provided what you want, just  broadband without a phone service.
On a more general note, these type of providers, as you say, want people to ‘commit’ to taking their services before they spend any money, but ‘legally’ I don’t see how it’s enforced, say you indicated your willingness to take their service , and in the meantime your situation changed ( like you were moving from that address ) I doubt they can say you cannot move because of this, and TBH, they work on percentages, if they needed a 60% sign up before they work started, they must factor in that the won’t get everyone , so would be happy with 45-50% , but in your case it seems it’s not you don’t want the FTTP , it’s the minor add on of the phone service.

How is it dishonest? The phone line can be provided without broadband so it makes sense to price these separately because broadband is an addon. Many services have basic packages and then have extra prices for addons and this is in no way misleading.

The ‘dishonesty’ is in marketing something that is dependent on something else and lumping all the costs onto one element, you wouldn’t expect a car dealer to advertise ‘Free Car’ and in the small print find that the T&C’s state  you have to purchase a set of alloy wheels from them to qualify for the free car, and the alloys are the same price as the identical a car for sale somewhere else.
Some may be naive enough to believe a broadband provider that charges £25/month but chooses to divide the £25 as £20 line rental and £5 broadband ( when the true cost of the line rental is £7 not £20 )  is a true reflection of the costs , it isn’t and has never been, but if you market your broadband this way in the past , anyone searching for cheap broadband would find this supposedly great deal for £5 , when the total cost of £25 is nothing special, that’s what’s dishonest.
It’s not clear why you chose to highlight it, I quite agree advertising rules  made quoting the entire price the ‘headline’ price in adverts , but that doesn’t stop anyone dividing the cost down into supposedly line rental and broadband , if fact using £25 and stating ‘includes line rental’ , to some , who have been conditioned over the years to think that line rental is £20 , would think broadband must be £5.
As far as the OP, I was attempting to point out that if whatever FTTP provider they have had quoted £25 for FTTP line rental , phone and broadband, there will little or no reduction if the ‘phone’ isn’t required.
If you want to believe that in a ‘deal’ that has £25 as the total cost , and splits the costs as £20 line rental and £5 broadband, is an honest division of costs, crack on mate

What company provides line rental for £7 a month in the UK?

If that company wants to offer line rental for £20 a month on it's own and then charge £5 a month extra for the addition of broadband then i don't see any problem with that at all. The fact that they price it like that is because they want to make profit even if the person chooses to just pay for line rental and not have broadband. 

But i don't know why you think that the costs have to be fairly divided between what they actually cost for them to be honest?. Pricing for all items is usually based on the demand for the item and the profit the company wants to make. So for example when going to the cinema you may notice that a large popcorn is priced the same as the cost of the ticket but the popcorn is far cheaper to provide and they make far more money on it. This isn't "dishonest" , it is simply priced differently because they want to make a larger profit on the food sales and stay competitive with the other cinemas on ticket prices.

You must also find "BOGOF" offers in the supermarkets very infuriating when you attempt to only have the free one but find you need to pay full price for the first one when in reality they both have the same cost. You must also call this "dishonest" when again in reality the offer is perfectly clear and everyone knows what to expect.

t3rm3y2

The phone service is about £6 per month but as it is an unneeded service it does mean I'm paying £6 more per month then I need to. 

t3rm3y2

iniltous said:

Takmon said:

iniltous said:

What is the difference in price between what you want and what they say you agreed to ?, if they have installed FTTP/FTTH, then adding some type of VOIP telephone service presumably shouldn’t add much cost, I would think it would be a few £ max per month, hopefully you are not someone who thinks if a company markets their products as £20 line rental and £5 broadband to make a total of £25/month ‘offer’, then if you only want broadband it follows that the price will only be £5/month...company’s use this ( dishonest ) marketing to so they can make their broadband look cheaper than it really is.
Obviously  there should be anything stopping you keeping your current copper phone line and having an additional phone service over the FTTP.
If it’s a case that keeping the copper phone service comes with a monthly bill of somewhere around £15-£22 a month , then whatever this  FTTP provider charges for BB and phone , I doubt it would be £15-£22 cheaper if they provided what you want, just  broadband without a phone service.
On a more general note, these type of providers, as you say, want people to ‘commit’ to taking their services before they spend any money, but ‘legally’ I don’t see how it’s enforced, say you indicated your willingness to take their service , and in the meantime your situation changed ( like you were moving from that address ) I doubt they can say you cannot move because of this, and TBH, they work on percentages, if they needed a 60% sign up before they work started, they must factor in that the won’t get everyone , so would be happy with 45-50% , but in your case it seems it’s not you don’t want the FTTP , it’s the minor add on of the phone service.

How is it dishonest? The phone line can be provided without broadband so it makes sense to price these separately because broadband is an addon. Many services have basic packages and then have extra prices for addons and this is in no way misleading.

The ‘dishonesty’ is in marketing something that is dependent on something else and lumping all the costs onto one element, you wouldn’t expect a car dealer to advertise ‘Free Car’ and in the small print find that the T&C’s state  you have to purchase a set of alloy wheels from them to qualify for the free car, and the alloys are the same price as the identical a car for sale somewhere else.
Some may be naive enough to believe a broadband provider that charges £25/month but chooses to divide the £25 as £20 line rental and £5 broadband ( when the true cost of the line rental is £7 not £20 )  is a true reflection of the costs , it isn’t and has never been, but if you market your broadband this way in the past , anyone searching for cheap broadband would find this supposedly great deal for £5 , when the total cost of £25 is nothing special, that’s what’s dishonest.
It’s not clear why you chose to highlight it, I quite agree advertising rules  made quoting the entire price the ‘headline’ price in adverts , but that doesn’t stop anyone dividing the cost down into supposedly line rental and broadband , if fact using £25 and stating ‘includes line rental’ , to some , who have been conditioned over the years to think that line rental is £20 , would think broadband must be £5.
As far as the OP, I was attempting to point out that if whatever FTTP provider they have had quoted £25 for FTTP line rental , phone and broadband, there will little or no reduction if the ‘phone’ isn’t required.
If you want to believe that in a ‘deal’ that has £25 as the total cost , and splits the costs as £20 line rental and £5 broadband, is an honest division of costs, crack on mate

This wasn't to save a massive amount of money by splitting the bill, it's the opposite. As they have installed ftth there is no "broadband/phone line package" like a traditional broadband provider does. The internet was the expensive part and phone line was only a small add-on. But may partner wanted to keep the copper line as a backup phone incase fibre had an issue, so we would be paying more for the phone line. 
Countybroadband are saying we have to take their phone line service too, which I don't see the point of as surely they base their pre sign up requirements on the internet service as that's where they make the money? 

matelodave

t3rm3y2 said:

iniltous said:

Takmon said:

iniltous said:

What is the difference in price between what you want and what they say you agreed to ?, if they have installed FTTP/FTTH, then adding some type of VOIP telephone service presumably shouldn’t add much cost, I would think it would be a few £ max per month, hopefully you are not someone who thinks if a company markets their products as £20 line rental and £5 broadband to make a total of £25/month ‘offer’, then if you only want broadband it follows that the price will only be £5/month...company’s use this ( dishonest ) marketing to so they can make their broadband look cheaper than it really is.
Obviously  there should be anything stopping you keeping your current copper phone line and having an additional phone service over the FTTP.
If it’s a case that keeping the copper phone service comes with a monthly bill of somewhere around £15-£22 a month , then whatever this  FTTP provider charges for BB and phone , I doubt it would be £15-£22 cheaper if they provided what you want, just  broadband without a phone service.
On a more general note, these type of providers, as you say, want people to ‘commit’ to taking their services before they spend any money, but ‘legally’ I don’t see how it’s enforced, say you indicated your willingness to take their service , and in the meantime your situation changed ( like you were moving from that address ) I doubt they can say you cannot move because of this, and TBH, they work on percentages, if they needed a 60% sign up before they work started, they must factor in that the won’t get everyone , so would be happy with 45-50% , but in your case it seems it’s not you don’t want the FTTP , it’s the minor add on of the phone service.

How is it dishonest? The phone line can be provided without broadband so it makes sense to price these separately because broadband is an addon. Many services have basic packages and then have extra prices for addons and this is in no way misleading.

The ‘dishonesty’ is in marketing something that is dependent on something else and lumping all the costs onto one element, you wouldn’t expect a car dealer to advertise ‘Free Car’ and in the small print find that the T&C’s state  you have to purchase a set of alloy wheels from them to qualify for the free car, and the alloys are the same price as the identical a car for sale somewhere else.
Some may be naive enough to believe a broadband provider that charges £25/month but chooses to divide the £25 as £20 line rental and £5 broadband ( when the true cost of the line rental is £7 not £20 )  is a true reflection of the costs , it isn’t and has never been, but if you market your broadband this way in the past , anyone searching for cheap broadband would find this supposedly great deal for £5 , when the total cost of £25 is nothing special, that’s what’s dishonest.
It’s not clear why you chose to highlight it, I quite agree advertising rules  made quoting the entire price the ‘headline’ price in adverts , but that doesn’t stop anyone dividing the cost down into supposedly line rental and broadband , if fact using £25 and stating ‘includes line rental’ , to some , who have been conditioned over the years to think that line rental is £20 , would think broadband must be £5.
As far as the OP, I was attempting to point out that if whatever FTTP provider they have had quoted £25 for FTTP line rental , phone and broadband, there will little or no reduction if the ‘phone’ isn’t required.
If you want to believe that in a ‘deal’ that has £25 as the total cost , and splits the costs as £20 line rental and £5 broadband, is an honest division of costs, crack on mate

This wasn't to save a massive amount of money by splitting the bill, it's the opposite. As they have installed ftth there is no "broadband/phone line package" like a traditional broadband provider does. The internet was the expensive part and phone line was only a small add-on. But may partner wanted to keep the copper line as a backup phone incase fibre had an issue, so we would be paying more for the phone line. 
Countybroadband are saying we have to take their phone line service too, which I don't see the point of as surely they base their pre sign up requirements on the internet service as that's where they make the money? 

I'm guessing that you dont have to take their service at all - in the end they have made you an offer for their package and you are free to accept or reject it as you wish.
They could have just offered the package at £6 more expensive and thrown in the phone for free - would that have made you feel happier?

DiddyDavies

matelodave said:

I'm guessing that you dont have to take their service at all - in the end they have made you an offer for their package and you are free to accept or reject it as you wish.

But surely the OP has already accepted the offer:

t3rm3y2 said:

I signed up and also ticked to have a sip phone. Roll on to now and they have installed the ftth but I said I didn't want the phone any more