TV licensing spying on home internet usage

KateBrown

I've never had a TV license because I don't watch live TV or iPlayer.
I got a letter today saying that 'you previously told us you didn't need a license at this address. However, our records show that you have used BBC iPlayer on a number of occasions over recent weeks.'
My friend visited and watched TV on his phone using my Wifi. He has a TV license at his property which according to the TV licensing will cover him, so I don't need to have one here.
I assume the only way they could have detected this is:
1.  The iPlayer app collects your IP address when you watch TV.
2. They then ask the internet service providers (BT, Virgin etc) for the address corresponding with each IP
3. They then cross-match this with their license unpaid addresses.

I wasn't aware that my ISP was sharing this data - when I checked the T&Cs, it appears that this is allowed, which I am not happy about. I'll probably change ISPs or get a VPN as who else are they sharing my data with?
Has anyone else had one of these letters? What happened next?
I've been subjected to their 'investigations' previously, which were always rather amusing, and never got beyond 'Dear the Occupier' and a couple of visits where I just shut the door and went on with my day.
(not my real name)

Browntoa

They need to prove it was you personally.
They cannot prove it was you , somebody may have been able to log onto your WiFi as you inadvertently turned off all security by mistake .

It's a fishing exercise

[Deleted User]

Sounds dodgy (the letter, not your actions), I’d wait and see if they follow it up. If you’re concerned then a VPN may be a good idea.

silverwhistle

I presume from you opening their letter that they have your (real) name? Letters to The Legal Occupier go straight in the log basket, but the same circumstances could well happen here if my friend ever did the same as yours. I used to use iPlayer for radio, but that's no longer possible.  I'd be interested to hear our resident expert Cornucopia's take on the matter.

Mickey666

I hope the OP’s friend didn’t have their phone plugged in to a charger at the time they watched iPlayer - if so, their home TV licence wouldn’t have covered them.
Ridiculous isn’t it? TV licencing and BBC funding is well overdue for a complete overhaul.

pphillips

GabiB said:

Sounds dodgy (the letter, not your actions), I’d wait and see if they follow it up. If you’re concerned then a VPN may be a good idea.

I didn't realise you could attach a VPN to the WiFi.

JJ_Egan

Yes many routers can use a VPN .

Wifi itself and a VPN on box or TV or stick may be possible .

Mickey666

Browntoa said:

They need to prove it was you personally.
They cannot prove it was you , somebody may have been able to log onto your WiFi as you inadvertently turned off all security by mistake .

First time I’ve heard that - I’ve always thought it was the home owner/occupier who was responsible.
If correct, I don’t see how TVL could prosecute anyone unless they had physically caught them in the act of watching without a licence, whereas in practice they just seem to go for unlicensed homes.  In this case, it was a friend in others it could be the baby-sitter etc.  What about children?  Are they legally responsible if they tune into iPlayer?  How could TVL ever pin it down to a specific person watching?

JJ_Egan

Most cases its an admittance of guilt .

pphillips

Mickey666 said:

Browntoa said:

They need to prove it was you personally.
They cannot prove it was you , somebody may have been able to log onto your WiFi as you inadvertently turned off all security by mistake .

First time I’ve heard that - I’ve always thought it was the home owner/occupier who was responsible.
If correct, I don’t see how TVL could prosecute anyone unless they had physically caught them in the act of watching without a licence, whereas in practice they just seem to go for unlicensed homes.  In this case, it was a friend in others it could be the baby-sitter etc.  What about children?  Are they legally responsible if they tune into iPlayer?  How could TVL ever pin it down to a specific person watching?

Legal precedent exists here to provide some clarity:
1. Monks v Pilgrim (1979) CRIMLR595 - this case confirms that a husband and wife are equally liable for being covered by a TV licence.
2. R (on the application of Hassan) v British Broadcasting Company [2015] EWHC 4204 (Admin) - Mr Hassan was claiming a refund for his TV license while staying at a hotel, he said the hotel were responsible for paying for it but the High Court disagreed and rejected his claim.

matelodave

Mickey666 said:

Browntoa said:

They need to prove it was you personally.
They cannot prove it was you , somebody may have been able to log onto your WiFi as you inadvertently turned off all security by mistake .

First time I’ve heard that - I’ve always thought it was the home owner/occupier who was responsible.
If correct, I don’t see how TVL could prosecute anyone unless they had physically caught them in the act of watching without a licence, whereas in practice they just seem to go for unlicensed homes.  In this case, it was a friend in others it could be the baby-sitter etc.  What about children?  Are they legally responsible if they tune into iPlayer?  How could TVL ever pin it down to a specific person watching?

When you use the internet, your IP address is visible to those who want to check it and I have no doubt that the BBC and others have the technology to know which IP addresses are viewing I-Player and it's not going to be difficult to correlate an IP address to a physical one. and then check if there's a valid licence at that address.

If it's being watched in your house on your internet, through your router then it's your responsibility to ensure that your internet is secure. I guess that most routers have NAT so that it's not easily possible to identify a particular computer, tablet or phone on the WAN side but the external connection to the premises will be. Just type in "what is my IP address" into your search bar. It's then an easy step to find out who the ISP is.
I'm sure there'll be a legal way for the BBC to demand the address from the ISP - in much the same way as the DVLA will flog-off the name & address of your car number plate to anyone who asks