Possible Racial Bias with Redundancy

bradders1983

As an aside, how would HR even know you were Scottish? HR where I work are five floors downstairs and wouldnt know me from Adam.

Bungle5393

bradders1983 said:

As an aside, how would HR even know you were Scottish? HR where I work are five floors downstairs and wouldnt know me from Adam.

It was a relatively small company, and the HR people worked closely with the 6 of us in the senior management team.

Been reading about the Polish worker who was awarded compensation for being called "Borat". There are lots of other nicknames that people have been called which tribunals have ruled upon favourably - Yoda, Gramps, Inspector Cleasau, Ironside, Sooty and Sweep, Thick Paddy to name a few.

Manxman_in_exile

unforeseen said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

I must admit when I first read this, I thought that the OP must be of African origin and that that was the perceived derogatory meaning of the term "King of Scotland" (Idi Amin), but now I'm not so sure?

OP are you claiming discrimination on the grounds of your skin colour or your Scottish nationality, or both?

(PS - it's immediately obvious to me that "King of Scotland" has the potential to be a racially abusive term.  I'm surprised so many people seem to be doubting this.  Whether it is in the OP's case, or is just a stupid joke, is another matter...)

It's only potentially racist if the skin colour is of the right shade

If the skin colour were of "the right shade", I think anybody using the term might be hard-pressed to establish it was only potentially racist.

Manxman_in_exile

Ditzy_Mitzy said:

I, too, initially thought the OP must be Ugandan.  Amin was the 'King of Scotland' after all.  But if he's white British, which he appears to be, then I can't see what the fuss is about.  Plenty of people have derogatory nicknames or are picked on for various characteristics they can't control.  I, for instance, have to put special effort into convincing others that I'm not a bit thick (well maybe I am, but you know what I mean) because I've got an Essex accent.  A real one, not an 'I went to private school and live in Hampstead but I'm cool and read the Guardian so attempt to sound like I'm from "da streets"'.  
'King', in isolation, is not an insult nor is 'Scotland'; especially as you live there.  Learning that others don't, perhaps, like you very much isn't nice and I'm sorry to hear it's happened to you.  It's a feature of every workplace, sadly, and it's not always going to lead to discrimination in the sense of legally protected characteristics.  It's possible not to be racist or homophobic or otherwise non-discriminatory in that sense and still be a nasty person.  

I often wondered whether some of my colleague at work referred to me as "that f******* Manx ****" (it was quite possible!) and whether I would be justified in regarding that as racist or merely abusive.  (Wouldn't bother me either way).

bradders1983

Bungle5393 said:

bradders1983 said:

As an aside, how would HR even know you were Scottish? HR where I work are five floors downstairs and wouldnt know me from Adam.

It was a relatively small company, and the HR people worked closely with the 6 of us in the senior management team.

Been reading about the Polish worker who was awarded compensation for being called "Borat". There are lots of other nicknames that people have been called which tribunals have ruled upon favourably - Yoda, Gramps, Inspector Cleasau, Ironside, Sooty and Sweep, Thick Paddy to name a few.

OK, I can see how all of those could be construed as offensive and/or racist (Borat for a Pole? Very odd, the character Borat was from Kazakhstan, but OK), but given you are white (which removes the Idi Amin explanation) can you please explain how "King Of Scotland" could in any way be thrown in the same pot?

Manxman_in_exile

Bungle5393 said:

bradders1983 said:

As an aside, how would HR even know you were Scottish? HR where I work are five floors downstairs and wouldnt know me from Adam.

Been reading about the Polish worker who was awarded compensation for being called "Borat".

And that demonstrates the stunning neanderthal stupidity of racists everywhere.  They couldn't even get the poor bloke's nationality correct!   (Which makes me start to think... is it still racism if the perpetrator is confused or simply wrong about the characteristic they are attributing to the target of the abuse?   Probably best not to go there...)

Manxman_in_exile

AskAsk said:

Ditzy_Mitzy said:

I, too, initially thought the OP must be Ugandan.  Amin was the 'King of Scotland' after all.  But if he's white British, which he appears to be, then I can't see what the fuss is about.  Plenty of people have derogatory nicknames or are picked on for various characteristics they can't control.  I, for instance, have to put special effort into convincing others that I'm not a bit thick (well maybe I am, but you know what I mean) because I've got an Essex accent.  A real one, not an 'I went to private school and live in Hampstead but I'm cool and read the Guardian so attempt to sound like I'm from "da streets"'.  
'King', in isolation, is not an insult nor is 'Scotland'; especially as you live there.  Learning that others don't, perhaps, like you very much isn't nice and I'm sorry to hear it's happened to you.  It's a feature of every workplace, sadly, and it's not always going to lead to discrimination in the sense of legally protected characteristics.  It's possible not to be racist or homophobic or otherwise non-discriminatory in that sense and still be a nasty person.  

i personally don't think there is any discrimination or racism meant in this.  those HR people are just idiots and should know better.  if i was running that company, i would sack them.

And that demonstrates the stunning neanderthal stupidity of HR personnel everywhere! 

Thrugelmir

Bungle5393 said:

I was the only Scottish person in our team of 6. The selection criteria that were used to select which 3 of us were to be made redundant placed me at a disadvantage, and I also don't believe I was scored fairly as part of the process.

What were the criteria that each of you were scored against?  Was Nationality one of the criteria?

Presumably you received your score at the time. Why didn't you raise the issue then?  Why wait until you'd left. As you should have lodged an appeal at the very least. 

With 3 out of 6 being made redundant. Then maybe difficult to argue that you were unfairly penalised. If some of the others scored materially higher, despite your concerns over yours. 

nora_nora

Racial bias does exist between different white races, some people wouldn't consider certain names used for Gypsies racist but I'm sure a traveler would see it differently. Regardless if it falls into technical racial bias, surely the real question here is why are HR even using that term and not having the professionalism to use his correct name when referring to him in written correspondence?  It's completely unprofessional if nothing else.

AskAsk

nora_nora said:

Racial bias does exist between different white races, some people wouldn't consider certain names used for Gypsies racist but I'm sure a traveler would see it differently. Regardless if it falls into technical racial bias, surely the real question here is why are HR even using that term and not having the professionalism to use his correct name when referring to him in written correspondence?  It's completely unprofessional if nothing else.

unless they thought it was a good idea to refer to staff anonymoulsy so that if it ever came to light, there was no evidence of who they were talking about.  stupid i know, but these people are stupid.