Retraining in Software/Web Development

Savvy_Sue

Magpie10 said:

Yes support from family/loved ones can be great - especially when they understand what a neurodiverse condition translates to in practical terms - but a mentor already practising in the industry will have insights that no loving family member could ever give! (Great that you're standing by your son though - my parents backed off massively when I struggled at uni thanks to undiagnosed ADHD... Hope your boy's doing well in whatever he's chosen do).

Well, we do our best. I always knew he was 'different' (aka Very Difficult!) so a huge relief at 12 when someone suggested Asperger's. 20+ years later, he's now a successful, independent, until-recently-itinerant game developer with friends all over the world. 

I guess it helped that I knew a number of other 'different' people - DH, FIL, couple of close family friends. 

Johnmcl7

AskAsk said:

Johnmcl7 said:

Magpie10 said:

True, there are Udemy/Skillshare courses that don't cost the earth, but anything with a live community element either in person or via Zoom calls seems to be expensive... From attending one of their taster days, Nology appear foster a great sense of shared purpose in realtime and get people up to speed in 'only' 12 weeks (as opposed to years - which these self-directed courses might take me...!): https://nology.io/12-week-software-developer-course/

I'd definitely recommend trying the likes of Udemy and there's a lot of advantages aside from the low cost.  My company have been putting me through training (all technology related) recently paying a fair chunk for an instructor led course and also then paying for Udemy to help with revision.  I initially was only going to use the Udemy course for revising some specific sections but found it so useful I went through the entire course again.  Unlike an instructor led course you can do it at whatever pace you want so if you're not picking something up you can skip back or redo the section plus usefully with a technology course I could spend more time doing practical work during the course and learnt it far better.  There is value to instructor led training but it is expensive and I think there is a lot of benefit from self led courses especially in software where there's a lot more to learn through practical experience.

I don't think speed should be the goal but properly understanding what you're doing, the instuctor led courses were much faster than doing the courses myself but I took much more in doing the course myself.  The type of work you are talking about is a lot more than just training since you're going to need spend a lot of time to develop your own sites and gain experience.

i signed up to udemy a few months ago as they were doing a promotion for free courses.  it was to build website through wordpress.  i thought i would learn to do so just out of interest, but i found the course very poor.  even though it was free, i couldn't stay with it and had to give up about 10 minutes into the course.

i found a similar course for free on youtube from another source and that was so much better that i could actually understand what the trainer was explaining!  it was actually very simple when it is explained well, whereas the udemy course made it sound really complicated and difficult to follow.

i thought all udemy course were useless from my one time experience with them, so i am surprised to hear that you found one that worked well for you.

Udemy is a platform and that's all that ties the videos together so because some videos are bad doesn't mean all the videos are bad.  There are some trainers I haven't liked because I've had trouble understanding them or didn't like their style so I chose another instead.  

Magpie10

AskAsk said:

Johnmcl7 said:

Magpie10 said:

True, there are Udemy/Skillshare courses that don't cost the earth, but anything with a live community element either in person or via Zoom calls seems to be expensive... From attending one of their taster days, Nology appear foster a great sense of shared purpose in realtime and get people up to speed in 'only' 12 weeks (as opposed to years - which these self-directed courses might take me...!): https://nology.io/12-week-software-developer-course/

I'd definitely recommend trying the likes of Udemy and there's a lot of advantages aside from the low cost.  My company have been putting me through training (all technology related) recently paying a fair chunk for an instructor led course and also then paying for Udemy to help with revision.  I initially was only going to use the Udemy course for revising some specific sections but found it so useful I went through the entire course again.  Unlike an instructor led course you can do it at whatever pace you want so if you're not picking something up you can skip back or redo the section plus usefully with a technology course I could spend more time doing practical work during the course and learnt it far better.  There is value to instructor led training but it is expensive and I think there is a lot of benefit from self led courses especially in software where there's a lot more to learn through practical experience.

I don't think speed should be the goal but properly understanding what you're doing, the instuctor led courses were much faster than doing the courses myself but I took much more in doing the course myself.  The type of work you are talking about is a lot more than just training since you're going to need spend a lot of time to develop your own sites and gain experience.

i signed up to udemy a few months ago as they were doing a promotion for free courses.  it was to build website through wordpress.  i thought i would learn to do so just out of interest, but i found the course very poor.  even though it was free, i couldn't stay with it and had to give up about 10 minutes into the course.

i found a similar course for free on youtube from another source and that was so much better that i could actually understand what the trainer was explaining!  it was actually very simple when it is explained well, whereas the udemy course made it sound really complicated and difficult to follow.

i thought all udemy course were useless from my one time experience with them, so i am surprised to hear that you found one that worked well for you.

Same - apparently sites like Udemy and Coursera are slightly hit or miss as technically anyone can call themselves a tutor and upload a course... WordPress is also not the 'beginner-friendly' CMS it's advertised to be, at least not from my experience.

I've found a couple of decent-looking WP courses on LinkedIn Learning (formerly Lynda) - fingers crossed...

What's the YouTube tutorial you found, AskAsk?

Johnmcl7

Magpie10 said:

Thanks Johnmcl7; good to hear your experience. What sort of field are you in? Great that you managed to find an employer who's willing to invest in your development; it seems that most nowadays want people who can hit the ground running.

I guess it just comes down to learning styles - I find that with my ADHD it's difficult to break a larger project into smaller tasks, so the days just merge into each other. If investing in self-directed learning again though, I would definitely buy a course over a subscription model - Skillshare ended up being pretty expensive as it took so long to complete a course (several UX/UI courses are still in progress!)

My original background is programming and at the moment moving into infrastructure so been working on getting Cisco and VMware certifications.  I agree it's great to get paid for training and the first time for me in 18 years but it has been very useful for my job.

We do have different learning styles so hopefully you can find something that suits you.  What I found difficult about instructor led training was that it's very focused and you've got to be 100% with it all day long so if you're not picking it up properly you're missing out.  With watching videos I came to recognise when I wasn't really learning and take a break or call it quits for the day and pick it up the day after.  

AskAsk

Johnmcl7 said:

AskAsk said:

Johnmcl7 said:

Magpie10 said:

True, there are Udemy/Skillshare courses that don't cost the earth, but anything with a live community element either in person or via Zoom calls seems to be expensive... From attending one of their taster days, Nology appear foster a great sense of shared purpose in realtime and get people up to speed in 'only' 12 weeks (as opposed to years - which these self-directed courses might take me...!): https://nology.io/12-week-software-developer-course/

I'd definitely recommend trying the likes of Udemy and there's a lot of advantages aside from the low cost.  My company have been putting me through training (all technology related) recently paying a fair chunk for an instructor led course and also then paying for Udemy to help with revision.  I initially was only going to use the Udemy course for revising some specific sections but found it so useful I went through the entire course again.  Unlike an instructor led course you can do it at whatever pace you want so if you're not picking something up you can skip back or redo the section plus usefully with a technology course I could spend more time doing practical work during the course and learnt it far better.  There is value to instructor led training but it is expensive and I think there is a lot of benefit from self led courses especially in software where there's a lot more to learn through practical experience.

I don't think speed should be the goal but properly understanding what you're doing, the instuctor led courses were much faster than doing the courses myself but I took much more in doing the course myself.  The type of work you are talking about is a lot more than just training since you're going to need spend a lot of time to develop your own sites and gain experience.

i signed up to udemy a few months ago as they were doing a promotion for free courses.  it was to build website through wordpress.  i thought i would learn to do so just out of interest, but i found the course very poor.  even though it was free, i couldn't stay with it and had to give up about 10 minutes into the course.

i found a similar course for free on youtube from another source and that was so much better that i could actually understand what the trainer was explaining!  it was actually very simple when it is explained well, whereas the udemy course made it sound really complicated and difficult to follow.

i thought all udemy course were useless from my one time experience with them, so i am surprised to hear that you found one that worked well for you.

Udemy is a platform and that's all that ties the videos together so because some videos are bad doesn't mean all the videos are bad.  There are some trainers I haven't liked because I've had trouble understanding them or didn't like their style so I chose another instead.  

i see.  i thought udemy employ the trainers as they charge for their courses.  so from what you are saying, they are only skimming commision from the trainers that put their material online with them.

in that case, they should have a feedback on each training module from students to show if the module is good or poor.  anyone not familiar with udemy would think they were complete rubbish if they just happened to got training on a bad course.  doesn't seem a very clever platform to me.  unless they did have the customer rating on the training module and i just don't remember seeing it.

AskAsk

Magpie10 said:

AskAsk said:

Johnmcl7 said:

Magpie10 said:

True, there are Udemy/Skillshare courses that don't cost the earth, but anything with a live community element either in person or via Zoom calls seems to be expensive... From attending one of their taster days, Nology appear foster a great sense of shared purpose in realtime and get people up to speed in 'only' 12 weeks (as opposed to years - which these self-directed courses might take me...!): https://nology.io/12-week-software-developer-course/

I'd definitely recommend trying the likes of Udemy and there's a lot of advantages aside from the low cost.  My company have been putting me through training (all technology related) recently paying a fair chunk for an instructor led course and also then paying for Udemy to help with revision.  I initially was only going to use the Udemy course for revising some specific sections but found it so useful I went through the entire course again.  Unlike an instructor led course you can do it at whatever pace you want so if you're not picking something up you can skip back or redo the section plus usefully with a technology course I could spend more time doing practical work during the course and learnt it far better.  There is value to instructor led training but it is expensive and I think there is a lot of benefit from self led courses especially in software where there's a lot more to learn through practical experience.

I don't think speed should be the goal but properly understanding what you're doing, the instuctor led courses were much faster than doing the courses myself but I took much more in doing the course myself.  The type of work you are talking about is a lot more than just training since you're going to need spend a lot of time to develop your own sites and gain experience.

i signed up to udemy a few months ago as they were doing a promotion for free courses.  it was to build website through wordpress.  i thought i would learn to do so just out of interest, but i found the course very poor.  even though it was free, i couldn't stay with it and had to give up about 10 minutes into the course.

i found a similar course for free on youtube from another source and that was so much better that i could actually understand what the trainer was explaining!  it was actually very simple when it is explained well, whereas the udemy course made it sound really complicated and difficult to follow.

i thought all udemy course were useless from my one time experience with them, so i am surprised to hear that you found one that worked well for you.

Same - apparently sites like Udemy and Coursera are slightly hit or miss as technically anyone can call themselves a tutor and upload a course... WordPress is also not the 'beginner-friendly' web design platform it's advertised to be, at least not from my experience.

I've found a couple of decent-looking WP courses on LinkedIn Learning (formerly Lynda) - fingers crossed...

What's the YouTube tutorial you found, AskAsk?

i found this one to be very good.  very clear and easy to understand.  the udemy one was chargeable but there was a promotion of it being free for a short period.  i can't imagine anyone would pay to train through that course.  you may find a lot of courses are free if you search on line.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AZ8GqW5iak

Magpie10

Savvy_Sue said:

Magpie10 said:

Yes support from family/loved ones can be great - especially when they understand what a neurodiverse condition translates to in practical terms - but a mentor already practising in the industry will have insights that no loving family member could ever give! (Great that you're standing by your son though - my parents backed off massively when I struggled at uni thanks to undiagnosed ADHD... Hope your boy's doing well in whatever he's chosen do).

Well, we do our best. I always knew he was 'different' (aka Very Difficult!) so a huge relief at 12 when someone suggested Asperger's. 20+ years later, he's now a successful, independent, until-recently-itinerant game developer with friends all over the world. 

I guess it helped that I knew a number of other 'different' people - DH, FIL, couple of close family friends. 

I understand that living with someone with Asperger's is tricky - one of my acquaintances struggles daily with her ASD daughter - but I think it's important to realise that it's not us who are 'different', or 'Very Difficult', Hence the term 'neurodiverse'! It takes several different types to make a society - if we all had the same strengths then when the world inevitably changes we'd be unable to learn and adapt.

I also understand that it seems to be a generational thing - neurodiversity, let alone poor mental health, wasn't tolerated as recently as ten years ago. Hence both parents making me homeless (though I'm trying my hardest to turn this around!) - I'm also trying to understand what it was in me that they hated so much, and I think that it may have just been that they saw a reflection of themselves (ADHD and ASD are genetic, after all!). I'm glad your son found success and independence with your support - but it sounds like we still have a long way to go to challenge the stigma that surrounds our (psychiatrically diagnosed) conditions...

MgComp

As someone has mentioned above, getting your employer to train you would be a great bet. My partner started right at the bottom of an IT team and learnt on the job with all the training paid for by the company, and is now a fully qualified software engineer (about 10 years later!). The downside of this, of course, is that you will likely be paid very little until you are fully trained.

AskAsk

MgComp said:

As someone has mentioned above, getting your employer to train you would be a great bet. My partner started right at the bottom of an IT team and learnt on the job with all the training paid for by the company, and is now a fully qualified software engineer (about 10 years later!). The downside of this, of course, is that you will likely be paid very little until you are fully trained.

even if the OP gets paid very little or nothing at all.   it would still be better than paying £7k to attend college without the promise of a job at the end.  i know of people who have IT degrees and they were not able to find a job in the IT sector when they left.

Magpie10

MgComp said:

As someone has mentioned above, getting your employer to train you would be a great bet. My partner started right at the bottom of an IT team and learnt on the job with all the training paid for by the company, and is now a fully qualified software engineer (about 10 years later!). The downside of this, of course, is that you will likely be paid very little until you are fully trained.

Thanks MgComp; do you know if companies are still willing to train now, given the present situation? Is there anything your partner said at interview to secure their training instead of highlighting a skills deficiency?

AskAsk said:

MgComp said:

As someone has mentioned above, getting your employer to train you would be a great bet. My partner started right at the bottom of an IT team and learnt on the job with all the training paid for by the company, and is now a fully qualified software engineer (about 10 years later!). The downside of this, of course, is that you will likely be paid very little until you are fully trained.

even if the OP gets paid very little or nothing at all.   it would still be better than paying £7k to attend college without the promise of a job at the end.  i know of people who have IT degrees and they were not able to find a job in the IT sector when they left.

Apparently pre-Covid these bootcamps all advertised a 90+% recruitment rate post graduation, though they've admitted to their figures dropping recently due to the lack of entry level positions being advertised... I definitely wouldn't invest in a £27K+ IT degree!

Thanks for the YouTube link, looks interesting. Yes there are heaps of free resources online thanks to digital pros being happy to share their knowledge, but I find the sheer number overwhelming (see previous ADHD-related background) and I've found that the free ones are either of limited quality or only get you so far before you have to cough up.