Retraining in Software/Web Development

Magpie10

Marcon said:

Magpie10 said:

 I know training expenses can be offset against income tax, however with most of the established courses costing upwards of £7K it's been impossible to stump up the cash upfront.

Only where these are essential for the business you are running, which cuts out retraining costs.

Wonderful... Any tips on accessing retraining budgets?

Savvy_Sue

Magpie10 said:

Savvy_Sue said:

Magpie10 said:

I know training expenses can be offset against income tax, however with most of the established courses costing upwards of £7K it's been impossible to stump up the cash upfront.

I'm not sure that's always the case, is it?

Thanks a tonne Savvy_Sue, appreciate the research!

Marcon said:

Magpie10 said:

 I know training expenses can be offset against income tax, however with most of the established courses costing upwards of £7K it's been impossible to stump up the cash upfront.

Only where these are essential for the business you are running, which cuts out retraining costs.

My initial comment referred to offsetting costs against tax, which Marcon has clarified for you. 

Savvy_Sue

Magpie10 said:

Savvy_Sue said:

Magpie10 said:

Although I've worked through a lot of these, I've recently been diagnosed with ADHD and find it difficult to commit to self-directed learning without external motivation, and would definitely benefit from a structured learning path - preferrably with the 'carrot' of certification at the end. 

Just a thought, and this may not provide the carrot you're after, but would it help to find a mentor or study buddy? DS1 had a similar problem (although not ADHD related) and from his second year at Uni he had a mentor paid for by his Disabled Student Allowance. 

Thanks a tonne Savvy_Sue, appreciate the research!

Ah yes, I've been looking for a mentor! Managed to find one in the form of the former Head of UX at BT, but sadly his new job didn't allow for much time to check in... How did your DS1 find his mentor? I've tried through Meet A Mentor, but wasn't aware that one could be paid for. I've been given an Access to Work grant, though might just be able to be put towards ADHD coaching sessions.

DS1 was at Uni, so it was all arranged out of my reach. I always felt a weekly (or daily?) check-in with me would have done the same job ("STOP JUGGLING AND DO YOUR COURSEWORK!") but it wasn't the same thing. :-)

I can't see why you wouldn't be able to pay a mentor, but the other thing is that some people are finding they have more time on their hands, so don't give up the search. 

Magpie10

Savvy_Sue said:

Magpie10 said:

Savvy_Sue said:

Magpie10 said:

I know training expenses can be offset against income tax, however with most of the established courses costing upwards of £7K it's been impossible to stump up the cash upfront.

I'm not sure that's always the case, is it?

Thanks a tonne Savvy_Sue, appreciate the research!

Marcon said:

Magpie10 said:

 I know training expenses can be offset against income tax, however with most of the established courses costing upwards of £7K it's been impossible to stump up the cash upfront.

Only where these are essential for the business you are running, which cuts out retraining costs.

My initial comment referred to offsetting costs against tax, which Marcon has clarified for you. 

OK, thank you - though the tax offsetting is irrelevant at the moment due to a lack of income.

Magpie10

Savvy_Sue said:

Magpie10 said:

Savvy_Sue said:

Magpie10 said:

Although I've worked through a lot of these, I've recently been diagnosed with ADHD and find it difficult to commit to self-directed learning without external motivation, and would definitely benefit from a structured learning path - preferrably with the 'carrot' of certification at the end. 

Just a thought, and this may not provide the carrot you're after, but would it help to find a mentor or study buddy? DS1 had a similar problem (although not ADHD related) and from his second year at Uni he had a mentor paid for by his Disabled Student Allowance. 

Thanks a tonne Savvy_Sue, appreciate the research!

Ah yes, I've been looking for a mentor! Managed to find one in the form of the former Head of UX at BT, but sadly his new job didn't allow for much time to check in... How did your DS1 find his mentor? I've tried through Meet A Mentor, but wasn't aware that one could be paid for. I've been given an Access to Work grant, though might just be able to be put towards ADHD coaching sessions.

DS1 was at Uni, so it was all arranged out of my reach. I always felt a weekly (or daily?) check-in with me would have done the same job ("STOP JUGGLING AND DO YOUR COURSEWORK!") but it wasn't the same thing. :-)

I can't see why you wouldn't be able to pay a mentor, but the other thing is that some people are finding they have more time on their hands, so don't give up the search. 

Good point - though it seems that mid-senior digital professionals have been rushed off their feet during the pandemic. But will definitely keep an eye out!

Yes support from family/loved ones can be great - especially when they understand what a neurodiverse condition translates to in practical terms - but a mentor already practising in the industry will have insights that no loving family member could ever give! (Great that you're standing by your son though - my parents backed off massively when I struggled at uni thanks to undiagnosed ADHD... Hope your boy's doing well in whatever he's chosen do).

Sandtree

Magpie10 said:
What's your background Sandtree, if you don't mind me asking? If looking at UX/UI design specifically, where would you focus your learning? I've used Adobe XD to design a few basic UI prototypes, though Figma, Sketch and InVision still seem to be a thing according to designers/recruiters I've spoken to.

I am a programme manager in financial services but tend to focus more on business led change than IT but you cannot do too much in business without IT these days. I have some self taught technical skills in SQL, .Net, HTML/CSS etc which came from my student days of making some extra money developing websites (but I was always more interested in the backend than the UI).

Most of my employers/clients (I typically contract) tend to outsource full on redevelopment of UIs to agencies and inhouse are limited to adding content via the CMS or adding the functional elements into the design but there are some that have the skills in house.

I'd suggest having a look on certain job boards like JobServe to see what potential employers/clients are looking for. If you do basic HTML/CSS/Javascript then many wont consider you IT and you may be disappointed with the monies involved. If you get much better at the Javascript side and in particular learning about the popular frameworks like React then the money does go up but you'll be spending much more of your time writing programming than markup (eg HTML).

I wouldn't rule out the UI/UX avenue without doing more research... there are roles like http://www.jobserve.com/IlGo5 where you need an understanding of what you can/cant do with things like HTML but don't actually need to be able to do it yourself... and not a bad rate of £600/day or http://www.jobserve.com/InMgs at £70k if perm is more your thing... you can also sell the story of how your have moved from graphic design into doing graphics for websites to UI/UX whereas its a harder sell to say you're one of the best javascript programmers out there.

Johnmcl7

Magpie10 said:

True, there are Udemy/Skillshare courses that don't cost the earth, but anything with a live community element either in person or via Zoom calls seems to be expensive... From attending one of their taster days, Nology appear foster a great sense of shared purpose in realtime and get people up to speed in 'only' 12 weeks (as opposed to years - which these self-directed courses might take me...!): https://nology.io/12-week-software-developer-course/

I'd definitely recommend trying the likes of Udemy and there's a lot of advantages aside from the low cost.  My company have been putting me through training (all technology related) recently paying a fair chunk for an instructor led course and also then paying for Udemy to help with revision.  I initially was only going to use the Udemy course for revising some specific sections but found it so useful I went through the entire course again.  Unlike an instructor led course you can do it at whatever pace you want so if you're not picking something up you can skip back or redo the section plus usefully with a technology course I could spend more time doing practical work during the course and learnt it far better.  There is value to instructor led training but it is expensive and I think there is a lot of benefit from self led courses especially in software where there's a lot more to learn through practical experience.

I don't think speed should be the goal but properly understanding what you're doing, the instuctor led courses were much faster than doing the courses myself but I took much more in doing the course myself.  The type of work you are talking about is a lot more than just training since you're going to need spend a lot of time to develop your own sites and gain experience.

AskAsk

Johnmcl7 said:

Magpie10 said:

True, there are Udemy/Skillshare courses that don't cost the earth, but anything with a live community element either in person or via Zoom calls seems to be expensive... From attending one of their taster days, Nology appear foster a great sense of shared purpose in realtime and get people up to speed in 'only' 12 weeks (as opposed to years - which these self-directed courses might take me...!): https://nology.io/12-week-software-developer-course/

I'd definitely recommend trying the likes of Udemy and there's a lot of advantages aside from the low cost.  My company have been putting me through training (all technology related) recently paying a fair chunk for an instructor led course and also then paying for Udemy to help with revision.  I initially was only going to use the Udemy course for revising some specific sections but found it so useful I went through the entire course again.  Unlike an instructor led course you can do it at whatever pace you want so if you're not picking something up you can skip back or redo the section plus usefully with a technology course I could spend more time doing practical work during the course and learnt it far better.  There is value to instructor led training but it is expensive and I think there is a lot of benefit from self led courses especially in software where there's a lot more to learn through practical experience.

I don't think speed should be the goal but properly understanding what you're doing, the instuctor led courses were much faster than doing the courses myself but I took much more in doing the course myself.  The type of work you are talking about is a lot more than just training since you're going to need spend a lot of time to develop your own sites and gain experience.

i signed up to udemy a few months ago as they were doing a promotion for free courses.  it was to build website through wordpress.  i thought i would learn to do so just out of interest, but i found the course very poor.  even though it was free, i couldn't stay with it and had to give up about 10 minutes into the course.

i found a similar course for free on youtube from another source and that was so much better that i could actually understand what the trainer was explaining!  it was actually very simple when it is explained well, whereas the udemy course made it sound really complicated and difficult to follow.

i thought all udemy course were useless from my one time experience with them, so i am surprised to hear that you found one that worked well for you.

AskAsk

Magpie10 said:

Savvy_Sue said:

Magpie10 said:

Savvy_Sue said:

Magpie10 said:

Although I've worked through a lot of these, I've recently been diagnosed with ADHD and find it difficult to commit to self-directed learning without external motivation, and would definitely benefit from a structured learning path - preferrably with the 'carrot' of certification at the end. 

Just a thought, and this may not provide the carrot you're after, but would it help to find a mentor or study buddy? DS1 had a similar problem (although not ADHD related) and from his second year at Uni he had a mentor paid for by his Disabled Student Allowance. 

Thanks a tonne Savvy_Sue, appreciate the research!

Ah yes, I've been looking for a mentor! Managed to find one in the form of the former Head of UX at BT, but sadly his new job didn't allow for much time to check in... How did your DS1 find his mentor? I've tried through Meet A Mentor, but wasn't aware that one could be paid for. I've been given an Access to Work grant, though might just be able to be put towards ADHD coaching sessions.

DS1 was at Uni, so it was all arranged out of my reach. I always felt a weekly (or daily?) check-in with me would have done the same job ("STOP JUGGLING AND DO YOUR COURSEWORK!") but it wasn't the same thing. :-)

I can't see why you wouldn't be able to pay a mentor, but the other thing is that some people are finding they have more time on their hands, so don't give up the search. 

Good point - though it seems that mid-senior digital professionals have been rushed off their feet during the pandemic. But will definitely keep an eye out!

Yes support from family/loved ones can be great - especially when they understand what a neurodiverse condition translates to in practical terms - but a mentor already practising in the industry will have insights that no loving family member could ever give! (Great that you're standing by your son though - my parents backed off massively when I struggled at uni thanks to undiagnosed ADHD... Hope your boy's doing well in whatever he's chosen do).

i haven't been formally diagnosed with attention deficit disorder, but i clearly have the symptoms.  however, for me, luckily it hasn't had any negative effect on me, except possibly in my personal life, where people can find it difficult to cope with me, but i do manage to find people who can 

it could be that i only suffer from the condition in a mild form rather than the full blown version.

Magpie10

Johnmcl7 said:

Magpie10 said:

True, there are Udemy/Skillshare courses that don't cost the earth, but anything with a live community element either in person or via Zoom calls seems to be expensive... From attending one of their taster days, Nology appear foster a great sense of shared purpose in realtime and get people up to speed in 'only' 12 weeks (as opposed to years - which these self-directed courses might take me...!): https://nology.io/12-week-software-developer-course/

I'd definitely recommend trying the likes of Udemy and there's a lot of advantages aside from the low cost.  My company have been putting me through training (all technology related) recently paying a fair chunk for an instructor led course and also then paying for Udemy to help with revision.  I initially was only going to use the Udemy course for revising some specific sections but found it so useful I went through the entire course again.  Unlike an instructor led course you can do it at whatever pace you want so if you're not picking something up you can skip back or redo the section plus usefully with a technology course I could spend more time doing practical work during the course and learnt it far better.  There is value to instructor led training but it is expensive and I think there is a lot of benefit from self led courses especially in software where there's a lot more to learn through practical experience.

I don't think speed should be the goal but properly understanding what you're doing, the instuctor led courses were much faster than doing the courses myself but I took much more in doing the course myself.  The type of work you are talking about is a lot more than just training since you're going to need spend a lot of time to develop your own sites and gain experience.

Thanks Johnmcl7; good to hear your experience. What sort of field are you in? Great that you managed to find an employer who's willing to invest in your development; it seems that most nowadays want people who can hit the ground running.

I guess it just comes down to learning styles - I find that with my ADHD it's difficult to break a larger project into smaller tasks, so the days just merge into each other. If investing in self-directed learning again though, I would definitely buy a course over a subscription model - Skillshare ended up being pretty expensive as it took so long to complete a course (several UX/UI courses are still in progress!)

I agree, it takes A LOT of time to retrain and as much effort and investment as it took to build up a graphic design career. It's almost like learning another language! Guess it's just stressful as the lack of freelance work + disability have meant that time is of the essence, but time is what's needed to build up another portfolio...

Incidentally, I didn't mean to create this post on the same day that a Government ad getting artists to retrain in 'Cyber' received one heck of a backlash...:# https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-54505841 I'd personally jump at the chance - where are all the training opportunities supporting career changers over the time it takes to build up the required skills??