Boris announcement on new deposit scheme?

SpiderLegs

Hannimal said:

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Having said that, the reason I am irked by your comment is because you seem to have no awareness of what life is like for majority of people in their 20s and 30s. One in five young people work in the hospitality industry. On average bar staff make around £16k pa. Similar salaries for people working in cafes and restaurants. UK median salary might be around 30k pa but that is dragged up by the population structure and older employees bringing in larger salaries. The median salary for a 25-year-old in full time employment is around £25k. I know a lot of people in their mid-thirties who are making around £20k pa.

Pop in taxes, rent and other living expenses and be reminded that the average first time buyer in Bristol forks out around £225,000 at the moment and you'll quickly notice that you don't make those kinds of savings merely by being frugal. 

Even the most generous lender will only give you around 5x your salary. That means that on 20k pa you can get 100k. In bristol that means you need another 100k in saving to get on the property ladder. The problem is not people being unable to control their spending. Your comment is so out of touch and tone-deaf it really is a bit incredible. 

it would seem fairly normal to me that younger people get paid less and are generally in shittier jobs than middle aged people. 

The mantra that young people cannot rent and save at the same time should only ever be short term reasoning. If you know people who have got to their mid thirties and are still on around 20k then I’m afraid I’d have to wonder what they have been doing with their last ten years of employment.

spoovy

SpiderLegs said:

 If you know people who have got to their mid thirties and are still on around 20k then I’m afraid I’d have to wonder what they have been doing with their last ten years of employment.

I visit lots of different companies for short periods as an IT contractor, recently particularly in the creative industries for some reason, and I can tell you that there are loads of people in their 30s in London on ~25k salaries.   People with higher ed qualifications in media, film, graphic design etc, very often it seems single too which can't help.  I see them working hard and I honestly can't imagine how they keep the lights on let alone save 80k for a house.  
My point is some sectors just pay crap money and not everyone has what it takes to progress to proper management roles or change careers in their 30s to sectors that pay well.  Even if you do change career you're starting off again at the bottom so money will be bad for a good while.

SpiderLegs

spoovy said:

SpiderLegs said:

 If you know people who have got to their mid thirties and are still on around 20k then I’m afraid I’d have to wonder what they have been doing with their last ten years of employment.

I visit lots of different companies for short periods as an IT contractor, recently particularly in the creative industries for some reason, and I can tell you that there are loads of people in their 30s in London on ~25k salaries.   People with higher ed qualifications in media, film, graphic design etc, very often it seems single too which can't help.  I see them working hard and I honestly can't imagine how they keep the lights on let alone save 80k for a house.  
My point is some sectors just pay crap money and not everyone has what it takes to progress to proper management roles or change careers in their 30s to sectors that pay well.  Even if you do change career you're starting off again at the bottom so money will be bad for a good while.

You’ve picked a pretty bad example. Nobody who works in IT needs to progress to management roles to earn more than 25k. Even junior developers should be earning 30k.

A 30 year old graduate has had 9 years of work. If they are in IT they can upskill themselves significantly easier than many other professions. They can learn networking, languages, database design, o365 skills, web design all from YouTube and Google if they want to. There are jobs out there in python that is taught at GCSE. Buy a book for £40, use open source resources, maybe go nuts and spend a couple of hundred getting some formal certification.
Sorry but it shouldn’t take a supposedly intelligent graduate nine years or more to earn more than 25K in IT if they are even slightly motivated.

Buying a house isn’t some kind of divine right, just like buying a Ferrari isn’t. If these people you know of have really reached their full earning potential then the reality is that they are never going to be able to afford things that others can. 

Slithery

SpiderLegs said:

spoovy said:

SpiderLegs said:

 If you know people who have got to their mid thirties and are still on around 20k then I’m afraid I’d have to wonder what they have been doing with their last ten years of employment.

I visit lots of different companies for short periods as an IT contractor, recently particularly in the creative industries for some reason, and I can tell you that there are loads of people in their 30s in London on ~25k salaries.   People with higher ed qualifications in media, film, graphic design etc, very often it seems single too which can't help.  I see them working hard and I honestly can't imagine how they keep the lights on let alone save 80k for a house.  
My point is some sectors just pay crap money and not everyone has what it takes to progress to proper management roles or change careers in their 30s to sectors that pay well.  Even if you do change career you're starting off again at the bottom so money will be bad for a good while.

You’ve picked a pretty bad example. Nobody who works in IT needs to progress to management roles to earn more than 25k. Even junior developers should be earning 30k.

A 30 year old graduate has had 9 years of work. If they are in IT they can upskill themselves significantly easier than many other professions. They can learn networking, languages, database design, o365 skills, web design all from YouTube and Google if they want to. There are jobs out there in python that is taught at GCSE. Buy a book for £40, use open source resources, maybe go nuts and spend a couple of hundred getting some formal certification.
Sorry but it shouldn’t take a supposedly intelligent graduate nine years or more to earn more than 25K in IT if they are even slightly motivated.

Buying a house isn’t some kind of divine right, just like buying a Ferrari isn’t. If these people you know of have really reached their full earning potential then the reality is that they are never going to be able to afford things that others can.

But spoovy isn't talking about people that work in IT...

SpiderLegs

Slithery said:

SpiderLegs said:

spoovy said:

SpiderLegs said:

 If you know people who have got to their mid thirties and are still on around 20k then I’m afraid I’d have to wonder what they have been doing with their last ten years of employment.

I visit lots of different companies for short periods as an IT contractor, recently particularly in the creative industries for some reason, and I can tell you that there are loads of people in their 30s in London on ~25k salaries.   People with higher ed qualifications in media, film, graphic design etc, very often it seems single too which can't help.  I see them working hard and I honestly can't imagine how they keep the lights on let alone save 80k for a house.  
My point is some sectors just pay crap money and not everyone has what it takes to progress to proper management roles or change careers in their 30s to sectors that pay well.  Even if you do change career you're starting off again at the bottom so money will be bad for a good while.

You’ve picked a pretty bad example. Nobody who works in IT needs to progress to management roles to earn more than 25k. Even junior developers should be earning 30k.

A 30 year old graduate has had 9 years of work. If they are in IT they can upskill themselves significantly easier than many other professions. They can learn networking, languages, database design, o365 skills, web design all from YouTube and Google if they want to. There are jobs out there in python that is taught at GCSE. Buy a book for £40, use open source resources, maybe go nuts and spend a couple of hundred getting some formal certification.
Sorry but it shouldn’t take a supposedly intelligent graduate nine years or more to earn more than 25K in IT if they are even slightly motivated.

Buying a house isn’t some kind of divine right, just like buying a Ferrari isn’t. If these people you know of have really reached their full earning potential then the reality is that they are never going to be able to afford things that others can.

But spoovy isn't talking about people that work in IT...

No that’s true 😂 I can’t read lol.

Media and film, well maybe. Graphic design?  Not so sure about that.
Picking only the lower paid industries as an example of why there’s loads of 30 somethings who are on 25k isn’t that great.
how about I pick all those 30 somethings who work in IT, education, doctors, lawyers, police ...etc.

Fact is if someone’s unhappy only earning 25k in any industry then there’s only one person who can do something about that.

spoovy

SpiderLegs said:

Media and film, well maybe. Graphic design?  Not so sure about that.
Picking only the lower paid industries as an example of why there’s loads of 30 somethings who are on 25k isn’t that great.
how about I pick all those 30 somethings who work in IT, education, doctors, lawyers, police ...etc.

Fact is if someone’s unhappy only earning 25k in any industry then there’s only one person who can do something about that.

My point was a specific reply to your statement disparaging people in their 30s who earn ~25k salaries and work in the lower paid industries, I made no attempt to generalise about the population at large.
You seem so eager to disagree you don't even take the time to read let alone comprehend what it is you are disagreeing with.

SpiderLegs

spoovy said:

SpiderLegs said:

Media and film, well maybe. Graphic design?  Not so sure about that.
Picking only the lower paid industries as an example of why there’s loads of 30 somethings who are on 25k isn’t that great.
how about I pick all those 30 somethings who work in IT, education, doctors, lawyers, police ...etc.

Fact is if someone’s unhappy only earning 25k in any industry then there’s only one person who can do something about that.

My point was a specific reply to your statement disparaging people in their 30s who earn ~25k salaries and work in the lower paid industries, I made no attempt to generalise about the population at large.
You seem so eager to disagree you don't even take the time to read let alone comprehend what it is you are disagreeing with.

Well I’m sorry but I disagree. It was clearly a penalty.

Crashy_Time

nickstone said:

Crashy_Time said:

MobileSaver said:

Crashy_Time said:

MobileSaver said:

Crashy_Time said:

The irony is the article confirms exactly what many of us here predicted and what you repeatedly ridiculed: "People are leaving the city ... and they work from home elsewhere". So yes of course there will be less demand (and therefore lower prices/rents) in undesirable areas which will be balanced by higher demand in nicer areas.

So London is an "undesirable area" now? LOL

That's hilarious! You were the one that to prove your point linked to an article that says "tenants are fleeing London, and the property market is cracking" and then an hour later you're discrediting what the article says!

Crashy_Time said:

What happens to demand if the person already owns a home "elsewhere", or moves back with their parents "elsewhere"

Yes, some people will have an empty second home and yes a small number of people will move back to parents but to suggest 100% of all those people moving out of the cities have one or the other is ludicrous. QED there will be an increase in demand in other areas.

Crashy_Time said:

I suppose you think your area is "desirable"?

The facts speak for themselves; as of today only two properties are available to buy (and none available to rent) in my area and one of those only came on the market last month, even the listed building I've mentioned before is now SSTC...

The link is about falling rents in London, and better deals for people renting in London, no one (except you it seems) expects London to be empty this time next year, why can`t you just accept that rents can fall as well as rise, LOL. No one is saying 100% of anybody is doing anything, the market is made up of various levels of sentiment and behaviour, which is even harder to predict in the present climate. What I AM saying is that a lot of young people have the option of going to parents, meaning the landlord loses out, and the effect of a proper recession plus likely difficult Brexit has to be taken into consideration.

I can confirm rents are now in noticeable decline in London.

Its starting from the centre and working its way further out, the odd thing is some of the outside parts haven’t yet fallen as much as the central areas, so rents are lower in central areas then formerly cheaper areas.

the outer areas will catch up with the falls.

the problem is that so many businesses are going bust and laying off huge swaths of Londoners, and most of those who haven’t been laid off yet are working from home. They find they can move somewhere much cheaper which is why the urban flight situation is so common now.

if this trend continues there are going to be more and more empty properties adding even more to supply when demand is reducing every month.

plus there was a building bubble in London adding even more supply to the empty property market.

Its good news for tenants in London, there are so many increasingly desperate LLs looking to find someone to rent their properties to, causing a rent reduction bidding war, all trying to undercut each other fighting over the decreasing number of good tenants left.

Yes there was definitely a "building bubble" in London, plenty of oversupply of cheaply built basic flats now, landlords being forced to drop rents is excellent news for hard working key workers and genuine money savers though!

noitsnotme

There goes yet another sock puppet on the banned list (nickstone).  Any guesses on when the next account will appear

SpiderLegs

Best be quick, it’s nearly time for the Great Depression.