Furlough pay not being dealt with properly?

Lisadp1970

Hello, I hope someone can offer some help regarding furlough pay.

 My sons girlfriend, who's 17, was working part time (zero hours contract) in a well known sandwich shop from October last year and was put on furlough pay when lockdown started.

She didn't receive anything in writing as to how much furlough she would receive but for the first 2 months she got £149 which was 80% of her average earnings.

 In June she worked just for 3 hours and for that month her furlough went down to £75, again she didn't get anything in writing regarding this change. The company have offered her no further hours, but have employed family members since to work in the shop.

She received £75 furlough for the months July and August but nothing for September, again nothing in writing or even a phone call to notify her of this.

 Her payslips are also sent to her around a week after she's paid, or not sent at all.

 She has questioned her boss who claims he doesn't have to pay her furlough if he doesn't want to, but as she's received no notification of this or offer of returning to her work, feels this is being handled totally wrong.

 I've advised her to raise a grievance, but not sure whether to take it one step further and report this to HMRC to investigate as something seems very dodgy.

 Any thoughts or advice appreciated.

Thanks

Lisa

Jeremy535897

Her employer can decide whether or not to furlough her, but if she is furloughed, she must receive at least the amount they claim for her net wage under CJRS, plus pay for any hours worked. The starting point is to establish when she was furloughed and what she was paid.

As an employee of less than two years' standing on a zero hours contract, she is lucky she has been furloughed at all.

Lisadp1970

Thanks for your reply.

She first received furlough in April, so pretty much straightaway, this was for the correct amount working to the average she had been paid since starting in October 2019 and was for £149 a month. This was only paid for two months then reduced to £75 a month and she has never received a single piece of correspondence regarding furlough and how much she'll get.or notification they were halving it and now stopping it.
Surely by law they are required to inform her?

Jeremy535897

What does her furlough agreement say? Did it set out a specific furlough period? If it did, and there was no further communication, it suggests they stopped furloughing her, although that doesn't explain the £75. She needs to look at her furlough agreement (she didn't have to agree in writing, but the agreement should be in writing), and any other emails or texts or correspondence, and I suggest she also looks at her personal tax account, to see what her employer says she was paid.

Whilst on furlough, she should have been receiving the higher of her average pay for 2019/20 (up to being furloughed), and her pay for the equivalent calendar period in the previous year.

Lisadp1970

Jeremy535897 said:

What does her furlough agreement say? Did it set out a specific furlough period? If it did, and there was no further communication, it suggests they stopped furloughing her, although that doesn't explain the £75. She needs to look at her furlough agreement (she didn't have to agree in writing, but the agreement should be in writing), and any other emails or texts or correspondence, and I suggest she also looks at her personal tax account, to see what her employer says she was paid.

Whilst on furlough, she should have been receiving the higher of her average pay for 2019/20 (up to being furloughed), and her pay for the equivalent calendar period in the previous year.

She hasn't received any furlough agreement, they have never put anything in writing to her at all so there is no agreement as far as she knows. I know that's not right as they should have written to her, but she's not had a single communication throughout lockdown to advise her of any kind of plan

Thrugelmir

Lisadp1970 said:

Jeremy535897 said:

What does her furlough agreement say? Did it set out a specific furlough period? If it did, and there was no further communication, it suggests they stopped furloughing her, although that doesn't explain the £75. She needs to look at her furlough agreement (she didn't have to agree in writing, but the agreement should be in writing), and any other emails or texts or correspondence, and I suggest she also looks at her personal tax account, to see what her employer says she was paid.

Whilst on furlough, she should have been receiving the higher of her average pay for 2019/20 (up to being furloughed), and her pay for the equivalent calendar period in the previous year.

I know that's not right as they should have written to her, but she's not had a single communication throughout lockdown to advise her of any kind of plan

Hardly surprising. A business has no better visibility of the future than anyone else. Many will be hanging on by a thread. Surviving week to week. You mentioned family members working in the shop. Perhaps they are unpaid. These are challenging times. While rights are important.  If there's no business there'll be no job at all. There's no grey. Just black and white. 

Jeremy535897

Guidance to employers says:
"Agreeing to furlough employees

"Employers should discuss with their staff and make any changes to the employment contract by agreement. When employers are making decisions in relation to the process, including deciding who to offer furlough to, equality and discrimination laws will apply in the usual way.

To be eligible for the grant, employers must have confirmed to their employee (or reached collective agreement with a trade union) in writing that they have been furloughed. You must:

• make sure that the agreement is consistent with employment, equality and discrimination laws
• keep a written record of the agreement for 5 years
• keep records of how many hours your employees work and the number of hours they are furloughed (i.e. not working)

The employee does not have to provide a written response and you do not need to place all your employees on furlough."

From https://www.gov.uk/guidance/claim-for-wage-costs-through-the-coronavirus-job-retention-scheme

Having said all of this, they did not have to furlough her, and I am doubtful as to whether there is a lot she can do. It would be worth her checking her personal tax account to see what the employer has reported paying her.

Lisadp1970

Thrugelmir said:

Hardly surprising. A business has no better visibility of the future than anyone else. Many will be hanging on by a thread. Surviving week to week. You mentioned family members working in the shop. Perhaps they are unpaid. These are challenging times. While rights are important.  If there's no business there'll be no job at all. There's no grey. Just black and white. 

Oh there's plenty of business, this is a major sandwich retailer who's always very busy.
Regardless of the current climate we're all affected by, she has rights as an employee to be treated within the law and not as some cheap labour workforce they can completely patronise because of her age.
At the end of the day she has never had anything discussed or put in writing which goes against the rules. Has never received any written statement of her employment terms and conditions she she started there a year ago. Regularly receives her payslips late or not at all. Has never been informed of any holiday entitlement.

Now your sympathy might be with the employer, who by the way being a franchise holder is doing very well for himself, but mine is with the trodden on employee and like Jeremy535897 has so helpfully pointed out, she was in her absolute rights to expect such matters to have been discussed with her

Lisadp1970

Jeremy535897 said:

Guidance to employers says:
"Agreeing to furlough employees

"Employers should discuss with their staff and make any changes to the employment contract by agreement. When employers are making decisions in relation to the process, including deciding who to offer furlough to, equality and discrimination laws will apply in the usual way.

To be eligible for the grant, employers must have confirmed to their employee (or reached collective agreement with a trade union) in writing that they have been furloughed. You must:

• make sure that the agreement is consistent with employment, equality and discrimination laws
• keep a written record of the agreement for 5 years
• keep records of how many hours your employees work and the number of hours they are furloughed (i.e. not working)

The employee does not have to provide a written response and you do not need to place all your employees on furlough."

From https://www.gov.uk/guidance/claim-for-wage-costs-through-the-coronavirus-job-retention-scheme

Having said all of this, they did not have to furlough her, and I am doubtful as to whether there is a lot she can do. It would be worth her checking her personal tax account to see what the employer has reported paying her.

Thank you for this, this is as I thought was the case.

Surely as they have failed to even discuss with her or put anything in writing they are in some kind of contravention for changing her contract without informing her?
Also the fact she has never been given holiday pay having worked there for a year and has never even received any kind of written statement in regards to employment terms and conditions means they are breaking the law there as well?

TBH I think this is a case of a lazy fanchisee taking advantage of cheap inexperienced labour with the way she's been treated

amykirk1996

Thrugelmir said:

Lisadp1970 said:

Jeremy535897 said:

What does her furlough agreement say? Did it set out a specific furlough period? If it did, and there was no further communication, it suggests they stopped furloughing her, although that doesn't explain the £75. She needs to look at her furlough agreement (she didn't have to agree in writing, but the agreement should be in writing), and any other emails or texts or correspondence, and I suggest she also looks at her personal tax account, to see what her employer says she was paid.

Whilst on furlough, she should have been receiving the higher of her average pay for 2019/20 (up to being furloughed), and her pay for the equivalent calendar period in the previous year.

I know that's not right as they should have written to her, but she's not had a single communication throughout lockdown to advise her of any kind of plan

Hardly surprising. A business has no better visibility of the future than anyone else. Many will be hanging on by a thread. Surviving week to week. You mentioned family members working in the shop. Perhaps they are unpaid. These are challenging times. While rights are important.  If there's no business there'll be no job at all. There's no grey. Just black and white. 

Correct, yet you advocate closing down viable businesses by refusing support for the owners of firms.

Jeremy535897

Lisadp1970 said:

Jeremy535897 said:

Guidance to employers says:
"Agreeing to furlough employees

"Employers should discuss with their staff and make any changes to the employment contract by agreement. When employers are making decisions in relation to the process, including deciding who to offer furlough to, equality and discrimination laws will apply in the usual way.

To be eligible for the grant, employers must have confirmed to their employee (or reached collective agreement with a trade union) in writing that they have been furloughed. You must:

• make sure that the agreement is consistent with employment, equality and discrimination laws
• keep a written record of the agreement for 5 years
• keep records of how many hours your employees work and the number of hours they are furloughed (i.e. not working)

The employee does not have to provide a written response and you do not need to place all your employees on furlough."

From https://www.gov.uk/guidance/claim-for-wage-costs-through-the-coronavirus-job-retention-scheme

Having said all of this, they did not have to furlough her, and I am doubtful as to whether there is a lot she can do. It would be worth her checking her personal tax account to see what the employer has reported paying her.

Thank you for this, this is as I thought was the case.

Surely as they have failed to even discuss with her or put anything in writing they are in some kind of contravention for changing her contract without informing her?
Also the fact she has never been given holiday pay having worked there for a year and has never even received any kind of written statement in regards to employment terms and conditions means they are breaking the law there as well?

TBH I think this is a case of a lazy fanchisee taking advantage of cheap inexperienced labour with the way she's been treated

I can see why you feel like that, but actually a lazy franchisee would probably have said that they weren't going to bother furloughing zero hour contract employees at all, and as she hasn't been working for two years there, she has no redundancy rights or rights for unfair dismissal. As I said, she should look on her personal tax account to see what her employer says she has been paid. Her employer has to pay her 80% of her reference salary if he furloughs her, otherwise they cannot claim under CJRS. The trouble is that she has no way of finding out what the employer has claimed.

As for changing her contract, the default position for her was no hours, no work, so they probably didn't think they needed to get her agreement to something better. They should have written to her about furlough, but it is difficult to see what complaining to the authorities would achieve. If the business fails as a result, there will be no job, and I suspect that if she complains too much to the employer, there will be no job.