Is it worth getting sacked over?

Ditzy_Mitzy

n1guy said:

theoretica said:

Do you know why your boss wants you to work such long hours rather than employing someone else (even part time?).  WHy is one person better for him than two?  There are some valid possible reasons like not having an extra workstation, but if it is just training and skills he would need to look for that if someone left and would have more flexibility with an extra staff member now.

I think he feels some loyalty to his long time employees who live for overtime, Its actually worrying how obsessed they are with it, nothing else in life matters, when overtime stops then all they talk about is getting hours cut "Aw we'll be on a 3 days week soon"  And if they see overtime stopping any time soon they will actually slow the entire thing down to avoid this, the boss knows and see's this but doesn't care its about keeping these pair happy, when I say long time they are both there 35 years each. Myself 6 years.  I think perhaps they both have issues at home which means they don't want to be there if I am honest.

If the two you refer to are older, which they will be having 35 year careers behind them, they'll have been through at least one, if not several, downturns in the manufacturing sector and will have great insight into how industry works.  Overtime is good, it means the factory is working.  Factories tend to offer lots of it in preference to taking on new staff and spreading the available working hours more evenly.  I don't know why, but that's how it is, certainly how it was and according to you the place works on similar lines.  In really good times extra staff would be taken on too, and additional shifts run.  It's probably a symptom of the places being run, simultaneously, on a shoe string and an economic knife edge.  Everything has to be as cheap as possible and there's no buffer or contingency, there's either a factory with orders that runs its lines or a factory with no orders that lays off its staff.  
Overtime drying up is a symptom of orders not coming in.  No orders means no production, which leads to layoffs.  So the sensible factory worker grabs what's there with both hands whilst it is there because he knows it might be gone tomorrow.  Plus there was the old fashioned working class attitude to money: get it while you can and spend it immediately.  The two things go, or went, hand in hand; certainly did in my family.  Downturns, as alluded to earlier, take away overtime first and jobs second. 
The boss, in this case, probably has a similar attitude to his older employees: for whatever reason the sun is shining so it's time to make hay (or whatever the firm makes).  He may see clouds on the horizon, or possibly can't believe his luck or is superstitious or something but at the moment what he's desperate not to do is derail the gravy train.  Anything, including the OP going on holiday, might be viewed as having the possibility to do that.
As for advice: I don't know, really.  What's the worst that could happen if you don't go on holiday?  The economy is heading for uncharted waters; if the money's there for the taking and you've got no pressing reason not to take some, why not work some extra shifts and see what happens next year?  Or you could press the point with the manager.  
I have worked in factories, good and bad, on production lines and have seen what happens when orders stop coming in.  It's not pretty.  

n1guy

Ditzy_Mitzy said:

n1guy said:

theoretica said:

Do you know why your boss wants you to work such long hours rather than employing someone else (even part time?).  WHy is one person better for him than two?  There are some valid possible reasons like not having an extra workstation, but if it is just training and skills he would need to look for that if someone left and would have more flexibility with an extra staff member now.

I think he feels some loyalty to his long time employees who live for overtime, Its actually worrying how obsessed they are with it, nothing else in life matters, when overtime stops then all they talk about is getting hours cut "Aw we'll be on a 3 days week soon"  And if they see overtime stopping any time soon they will actually slow the entire thing down to avoid this, the boss knows and see's this but doesn't care its about keeping these pair happy, when I say long time they are both there 35 years each. Myself 6 years.  I think perhaps they both have issues at home which means they don't want to be there if I am honest.

If the two you refer to are older, which they will be having 35 year careers behind them, they'll have been through at least one, if not several, downturns in the manufacturing sector and will have great insight into how industry works.  Overtime is good, it means the factory is working.  Factories tend to offer lots of it in preference to taking on new staff and spreading the available working hours more evenly.  I don't know why, but that's how it is, certainly how it was and according to you the place works on similar lines.  In really good times extra staff would be taken on too, and additional shifts run.  It's probably a symptom of the places being run, simultaneously, on a shoe string and an economic knife edge.  Everything has to be as cheap as possible and there's no buffer or contingency, there's either a factory with orders that runs its lines or a factory with no orders that lays off its staff.  
Overtime drying up is a symptom of orders not coming in.  No orders means no production, which leads to layoffs.  So the sensible factory worker grabs what's there with both hands whilst it is there because he knows it might be gone tomorrow.  Plus there was the old fashioned working class attitude to money: get it while you can and spend it immediately.  The two things go, or went, hand in hand; certainly did in my family.  Downturns, as alluded to earlier, take away overtime first and jobs second. 
The boss, in this case, probably has a similar attitude to his older employees: for whatever reason the sun is shining so it's time to make hay (or whatever the firm makes).  He may see clouds on the horizon, or possibly can't believe his luck or is superstitious or something but at the moment what he's desperate not to do is derail the gravy train.  Anything, including the OP going on holiday, might be viewed as having the possibility to do that.
As for advice: I don't know, really.  What's the worst that could happen if you don't go on holiday?  The economy is heading for uncharted waters; if the money's there for the taking and you've got no pressing reason not to take some, why not work some extra shifts and see what happens next year?  Or you could press the point with the manager.  
I have worked in factories, good and bad, on production lines and have seen what happens when orders stop coming in.  It's not pretty.  

I'm just knackered and totally fed up to be honest.  I have had 8 days holidays this year, 3-4 of them were in January from last Christmas holidays,  Yeah its the type of thing that if one person doesn't do overtime or has time off the entire thing falls apart, yes I'm richer than I've ever been which is pretty useless when I am never off.  It kinda seems like one of these things that falls through the cracks in terms off rules and regulations

Savvy_Sue

so the lines require an 'all or none' approach? That's a seriously short-sighted way to operate, especially in these 'unprecedented times'.

What happens if one of you contracts Covid, or has to isolate following contact? 

n1guy

Savvy_Sue said:

so the lines require an 'all or none' approach? That's a seriously short-sighted way to operate, especially in these 'unprecedented times'.

What happens if one of you contracts Covid, or has to isolate following contact? 

Well I suppose we can't afford the luxury of having an extra couple of workers "just incase" given the fact that take me for example, I last was sick back 3-4 years ago, Well I have been sick but ploughed on regardless as did my coworkers.

Ditzy_Mitzy

Savvy_Sue said:

so the lines require an 'all or none' approach? That's a seriously short-sighted way to operate, especially in these 'unprecedented times'.

What happens if one of you contracts Covid, or has to isolate following contact? 

It's how small scale manufacturing, especially limited batch production, works.  Factory gets an order, makes it as quickly as possible and then prays for another one.  There's no nice reliable income stream, just alternating good and bad times and when the good times roll you keep them rolling.  Cash reserves?  What cash reserves...  

Xbigman

I'd echo what others are saying. You have a legal right to the holiday but you have to be realistic. Small business works this way. If you have major problems fitting into this sort of structure you need to find another job. I worked in a bakery where six days a week was standard and Xmas and Easter were work till you drop periods. I took a paycut and got out. 

The only thing I would add is to watch out for your colleagues. The overtime junkies can turn nasty if you talk about taking on more staff and reducing overtime. They really can.


Darren

n1guy

Xbigman said:

I'd echo what others are saying. You have a legal right to the holiday but you have to be realistic. Small business works this way. If you have major problems fitting into this sort of structure you need to find another job. I worked in a bakery where six days a week was standard and Xmas and Easter were work till you drop periods. I took a paycut and got out. 

The only thing I would add is to watch out for your colleagues. The overtime junkies can turn nasty if you talk about taking on more staff and reducing overtime. They really can.


Darren

Oh I don’t doubt that man.  These people intrigue me, I can’t understand they’re thinking.  With me when I do overtime I do it for the good of the business, get it over and done with ASAP and get back to normal hours.  They clearly don’t view it like this, it’s all about them and how they can extend it as long as possible.  I’m fighting a losing battle at the moment as its me against the rest of them and they’re trying there best to drag things on and it’s working a treat. 

Thrugelmir

To clarify. Are you wanting to take the full 20 days before the end of the year? 

thebrexitunicorn

Have you requested holidays?

n1guy

thebrexitunicorn said:

Have you requested holidays?

That was how this all came about. I went into enquire about Christmas holidays, got told about this big order, I was told leave it with me which equals “No but I don’t have the balls to tell and start a row”. Our holidays are set at various times through out the year, it’s the only way a place like that can operate. I knew once I was told about this order it was game over.  You can request holidays that you haven’t take but you also have to think that the entire thing can not function without you for longer than a day or two, and even at that when you come back it’ll take days to get caught up

I have small kids, I don’t think I’m being unreasonable looking to spend time with them especially over Christmas