Sold car with FSH - no FSH and warranty possibly invalid

Grumpy_chap

HHarry said:

The second issue is whether you'd have bought that car (or paid the price you did) knowing the actual service history. If the answer is 'No' then it sounds like you might have a bit of a fight.  

This means we are back to understanding what is meant by FSH "Full Service History" and whether it could mean different things to different people.

For me, FSH, particularly on a <3yo car purchased from a marque's Main Dealer under the marque's Approved Used scheme, then I would consider that FSH means the car has been fully maintained on time, every time according to the marque's servicing schedule and at the marque's authorised service centre or main dealer.  So, on this high standard, one stamp missing, or late, or not by a main dealer is not FSH.

The opposite extreme view and interpretation of FSH is a full history of all servicing on that car, and if that means the car was never serviced then there is a nice clean service book as record of that.

Whatever the definition of "FSH", it would seem that the OP has not received the Complete Peace of Mind that Honda state for the Honda Approved scheme.  However, looking at what Honda state for Honda Approved, I cannot find that they state FSH as a requirement:
https://usedcars.honda.co.uk/en/used-cars/benefits-of-honda-approved 

ontheroad1970

fred246 said:

The Motor Ombudsman is run by the Society of Motor Manufacturers and traders. They share the same building. No prizes for guessing who they favour. As much use as a chocolate teapot. Check out their reviews on Trustpilot. Even if they find in the customers favour the garage just ignore it. I suspect their actual purpose is to prevent people taking garages to court.

Care to back that up with actual evidence rather than your usual anti dealer bias?

fred246

ontheroad1970 said:

fred246 said:

The Motor Ombudsman is run by the Society of Motor Manufacturers and traders. They share the same building. No prizes for guessing who they favour. As much use as a chocolate teapot. Check out their reviews on Trustpilot. Even if they find in the customers favour the garage just ignore it. I suspect their actual purpose is to prevent people taking garages to court.

Care to back that up with actual evidence rather than your usual anti dealer bias?

Look this really isn't rocket science. All the major car manufacturers pay money to be members of a club called the society of motor manufacturers and traders. When a customer isn't happy with a trader or manufacturer they contact the club. What is going to happen if the club keeps finding in favour of the customer? The club isn't going to last very long is it?

neilmcl

fred246 said:

ontheroad1970 said:

fred246 said:

The Motor Ombudsman is run by the Society of Motor Manufacturers and traders. They share the same building. No prizes for guessing who they favour. As much use as a chocolate teapot. Check out their reviews on Trustpilot. Even if they find in the customers favour the garage just ignore it. I suspect their actual purpose is to prevent people taking garages to court.

Care to back that up with actual evidence rather than your usual anti dealer bias?

Look this really isn't rocket science. All the major car manufacturers pay money to be members of a club called the society of motor manufacturers and traders. When a customer isn't happy with a trader or manufacturer they contact the club. What is going to happen if the club keeps finding in favour of the customer? The club isn't going to last very long is it?

That would be a no then.

ontheroad1970

fred246 said:

ontheroad1970 said:

fred246 said:

The Motor Ombudsman is run by the Society of Motor Manufacturers and traders. They share the same building. No prizes for guessing who they favour. As much use as a chocolate teapot. Check out their reviews on Trustpilot. Even if they find in the customers favour the garage just ignore it. I suspect their actual purpose is to prevent people taking garages to court.

Care to back that up with actual evidence rather than your usual anti dealer bias?

Look this really isn't rocket science. All the major car manufacturers pay money to be members of a club called the society of motor manufacturers and traders. When a customer isn't happy with a trader or manufacturer they contact the club. What is going to happen if the club keeps finding in favour of the customer? The club isn't going to last very long is it?

Who said it had to be rocket science?  You should be more careful about making statements talking about an institution that could be read as libellous.  Many industries have formed voluntary regulatory bodies, and for two reasons:

1/ To prevent the government forming an obligatory one with more teeth and higher fines.

2/ To demonstrate customer care which makes a customer feel more reassured that they have a complete complaints process.  

While you could argue that "he who pays the piper calls the tune", it is in the Ombudsman's interests to make decisions independently, and for 2) it is actually in the manufacturers and retailers interests for there to be seen to be an independent process.  This is also the way it works with other industries including the energy industry.  

I would suggest you stop presenting unsubstantiated opinion as fact.  Especially when you identify the people you are potentially libelling.  

fred246

Well you have to question whether an ombudsman for complaints against the motor industry should be run by the motor industry. Their rating on Trustpilot is one of the worst ever recorded. The important thing is that people realise who runs it. When they post that letter off to the motor ombudsman it goes straight to the Society of motor manufacturers and traders. Don't be surprised when you get a letter back saying some assessor has found in favour of the motor trader or manufacturer. Continue straight to the small claims court.

Were_Doomed

fred246 said:

Their rating on Trustpilot is one of the worst ever recorded.

Is that because they won't pay TP for the enhanced review package, so TP have nobbled their profile? (See the PV&W board).

lld890

Hello everyone,

Thanks so much for the replies and sorry for delay in response - I had assumed I would get notified and that no one had replied!

answers to questions that have been asked:

What do we want:

• Bottom line is complete peace of mind. There are pros and cons to different options. 
• We did initially reject the car and say we wanted a refund (via email) but they replied ‘we cannot accept the rejection’. We would lose about £300 in associated costs from returning the car (changing insurance, amount paid for window tinting already) but obviously that is negligible in the grand scheme of things. I suppose to do this and start again would be preferred option. We are trying to claim on credit card for the same. Unclear if we can drive the car given the dealer has rejected the rejection. 
• Through enquiries so far it seems manufacturer will honour the warranty but only anything that isn’t caused by lack of service. So an oil problem causing engine failure wouldn’t be covered for example. So we had an idea of saying the dealer could agree in writing to cover any and all costs for work rejected under the warranty for the specific reason of the service history. Whether this dealer who are a right stinker to deal with would agree to such an idea is another story... but that would be preference 2. 
• Honda Swap in 30 days is technically for mechanical failure only... if the dealer did agree there is no guarantee on similar mileage which effectively means they just give you a lower value (more mileage) vehicle. This is preference 3. 

Our options are motor ombudsman (worrying given opinions on here) and credit card. Dealer I have had long email exchanges with about complaint but will follow suggested guidance of writing a letter with complaint at the top etc - thank you. 

In answer to other points, as above we have already tried to reject the vehicle in writing (email) and been told they simply won’t accept the rejection. So we have assumed we are ok to continue driving it in those circumstances (bear in mind also I am disabled so cannot get around without a car and don’t have the £ to get another in the meantime.) 

Regarding FSH... warranty (at least extended warranty - original warranty they didn’t give me the terms and conditions for and still haven’t when I’ve asked) defines this neatly as all services according to the schedule in service book and within 30 days or 750 miles of due. The add states ‘service history:service history’ and not ‘full service history’. Honda UK have said in an email the dealer shouldn’t have sold without checking the service history and it is unusual for Honda Approved to be sold without it - you are correct though it does not appear to be a written requirement for Honda Approved to have FSH. 

Sorry for ignorance but Google also not helping - what is a long life vs short life service schedule? Is it to do with years vs miles?

Finally to clear up any confusion around the warranties, Honda Approved comes with 12 month warranty as has been suggested. For us six months of that is covered by originals warranty, then six months Honda Approved warranty. We purchased 2 year extended warranty on top. We were in fact only given the terms and conditions for the latter two warranties and they both have this clause about fulls service history. 

lld890

Also I think we may have some recourse via financial ombudsman for the extended warranty as we explicitly were sold it but it doesn’t cover everything we need (because of the caveat around claims due to lack of service history) so a at a minimum should be able to get that cost back. That obviously doesn’t solve our overall problem though. 

lld890

For anyone who has a similar problem in future - we remembered we have some family legal protection via home insurance. We didn’t end up having to actually end up having to actually use that though because in the initial call they said we should send a letter before claim. We did that and within a few days got the full amount back and returned the car.