Quick Question regarding S21 notice served - INVALID NOTICE?? help much appreciated!

bertie1979

thanks alot, will have to find out when sale goes/gone through.
haev never received full details of new owners other than "hi this is Steve"

[Deleted User]

bertie1979 said:

right coming back to this, I had the section 21 reissued correctly and due to be out now end of May.
the new buyers had asked me to renew the tenancy, i agreed to this last week, they've now sent a text to say they in fact want to move in over the summer (this is a 2nd home for them) and "sorry for messing me around".
due to my location, there really isn't any decent rental properties available especially to find something in the next 7 weeks.
So obviously I can now make them go for a repossession order, what's the process with all this?
My contract is with the previous owners, I've had very little contact from the letting agent (only last week, he informed me a new contract will be coming to me).
So how do i prolong this as long as possible, whilst i try and find somewhere else to rent?
I will continue to pay the rent to the letting agent, I have no interest in not paying, just don't like how these guys have now messed me around.
Was the "non-evictions" (sorry not sure on the law) extended? a little bit worried on this now.

Please take the time to read the information in the like greatcrested provided as it answers a lot of your questions. You do not need to leave the property at the the end of May. You also do not need to sign a new agreement just because the property is sold as the original agreement continues. 

The Landlord & Tenant Act 1985 S3 requires the new LL to inform the tenant in writing of the acquisition within (usually) two months. Failure to do so is a criminal offence. Pending formal notification, it is advisable for rent to be witheld and set aside till it is clear who is entitled to the rent. How did the new (potential?) owners get your phone number? 

bertie1979

I believe the selling agent or the surveyor (could've been me agreeing with the selling agent - honestly can't remember now as it was pre-xmas). I work away a lot and due to the nature of my job, couldn't have people just wondering around the property, so I had to be in for the survey and it was extreme hassle trying to organise between the agent & surveyor & myself on suitable dates (I did have to tell both the letting and selling agent a few times, they couldn't just come in when i was absent). So I think I may have given the selling agent permission to pass on my number to the buyers so we could organise a viewing (lockdown was happening and they were having to travel from essex to cornwall - they ended up not coming due to being put into lockdown again)

HampshireH

bertie1979 said:

thanks alot, will have to find out when sale goes/gone through.
haev never received full details of new owners other than "hi this is Steve"

Why? Just wait to be told. Let them make the mistakes, if indeed you wish to benefit from them.

In the meantime actively seek a new property.

The question as to how they got your number would be relevant if obtained without consent as the Estate Agent nor your landlord should be providing your personal details without your consent.

Don't forget if your landlord incurs costs in having to apply to court (which they will) and further bailiff costs to evict you then they will likely request via the court you pay for them.

bertie1979

Hi guys, still stuck in this (and apologies for the long post!)

some further developments, have continued to look for a property, have widened my search to include 2 counties now, but literally as soon as anything suitable comes on the market "we're now full for bookings", etc etc.

anyway, after receiving an email from the letting agent a few weeks back

Hi XXXXX,

Thanks for your e-mails, we have also received payment so thanks for that as well.

I have now taken instruction from the landlord, they fully understand and sympathise with your situation however, they are not convinced of your urgency in attempting to find an a new rental property. In previous dealings with you they have commented on how slow you have been to respond. Your profession is continually used as a cloak of mystery and has prevented them from viewing xxxxx before and after the acquisition. They have now decided to allow you to stay until the 25th of July on the grounds rent is paid in full and that you send a letter of notice confirming you will vacate the property on or before the 25th of July 2021. Failure to receive a letter of intent within the next seven working days will leave them no alternative then to instruct solicitors to commence the eviction process.

As you know we have previously offered assistance in re-locating and this offer still stands, we are here to help.

I notified them I was indeed still actively looking for a property, however it was proving difficult, blah blah and that the property will be occupied until i either notify them or the court does and i will be continuing to pay rent on due dates.

so a couple of things,

1) I have now received a letter dated today from the new owners' solicitors...

[quote]Dear Mr xx
Re: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Premises)
Background
We are instructed by XXXXX , who is the new owner of the above Premises.
You were served notice by the previous landlord XXXXXX pursuant to which you were obliged to vacate the Premises on or before 23rd May 2021. However, our client allowed you to stay in the Premises until 25th July 2021.

We understand that you are still in occupation of the Premises. You are required to:
a. Vacate the Premises immediately.
b. Return the keys to the Premises to the Landlord’s Agent.

If you fail to comply with the above, then our client reserves the right to issue proceedings for possession
without notice to you.

2) I have a gas fire in the lounge that is supplied by external gas bottles (i've never used it) - does this still require an annual gas safety certificate if it's not mains supplied?


so dealing with the simple first, the gas fire needs a safety check? if so, this hasn't been carried out (and i haven't prevented it from being carried out)

Now onto Section 03 notices, they bought the property in April, as can be seen I was given notice by previous owner to vacate by end of May, should the new owners have still given me a section 3 notice as they've now owned the property 4 months+ or not due to the cross over of the notice period, etc?

Other than continue to look for a property (and obviously start to lower my criteria..) what are my next steps?
Is there any comeback for the gas safety certificate not being carried out?
Do I mention the S03 non-compliance (or how do i deal with that?)

and finally what exactly does their final sentence mean with regards timeline, I'm assuming this means trying to get a court date?

Do i reply to the solicitor to say I'll vacate when i find somewhere and/or the courts issue repossession? or do i ignore the solicitor for now?

RAS

moneysavinghero said:

bertie1979 said:

sorry also when you say, they have to inform me of being my new landlords, does a text suffice or do they have to complete forms or something?

The law says they have to inform you in writing and to give their full name and address. I am guessing they did not put all of that in a text. Whether or not a text counts as 'in writing' i'm not sure.

Has your new landlord written to you supplying the required information?

Not the estate agent telling you in passing that your new LL Mr Smith wants you out; proper notice.

And remind the EA and the solicitor that the LL and EA rescinded the notice at the end of March, although they messaged a week later changing their minds. 

Remember, you know what has happened, the solicitor has only got a potted version edited by the LL or EA.

And remind everyone that finding accommodation of any sort in the South-west is currently a nightmare.

bertie1979

I've had no written letter or email stating the new owners details.
The closest to it has been this solicitor's letter received via email dated today (apparently one has also been sent in the post) stating the guy's name.

I did receive an email from the letting agent which was a few weeks after the new owners decided against offering a new contract via text message..

"Hi, following on from our last conversation we have had a change of heart and we are now looking to take possession of the property once your notice period has expired whish I believe is in June. I am terribly sorry to mess you around, but the pandemic has massively influenced our decision and to spend the summer in Cornwall is the rest bite we need. Please give us a call if you need to chat this through."

this is the email 3 weeks after that text.

I believe the new owners of XXXXX have also been trying recently, neither of us have been able to get through to you.
The new buyers are looking to uphold the notice served by your landlord which was served on 23rd Nov 2020, so will run up until 23rd May 2021, therefore you will need to be vacated from the property on or before that date and release keys to us once you have vacated.
Please can you confirm receipt of this e-mail, and don’t hesitate to get in touch if you have any questions at all.

grumiofoundation

bertie1979 said:

I've had no written letter or email stating the new owners details.
The closest to it has been this solicitor's letter received via email dated today (apparently one has also been sent in the post) stating the guy's name.

I did receive an email from the letting agent which was a few weeks after the new owners decided against offering a new contract via text message..

"Hi, following on from our last conversation we have had a change of heart and we are now looking to take possession of the property once your notice period has expired whish I believe is in June. I am terribly sorry to mess you around, but the pandemic has massively influenced our decision and to spend the summer in Cornwall is the rest bite we need. Please give us a call if you need to chat this through."

this is the email 3 weeks after that text.

I believe the new owners of XXXXX have also been trying recently, neither of us have been able to get through to you.
The new buyers are looking to uphold the notice served by your landlord which was served on 23rd Nov 2020, so will run up until 23rd May 2021, therefore you will need to be vacated from the property on or before that date and release keys to us once you have vacated.
Please can you confirm receipt of this e-mail, and don’t hesitate to get in touch if you have any questions at all.

You do not have to leave when notice expires, unless you agree they won't be taking possession when notice expires. The landlord need to go to court to obtain a court order.


Have you been served a valid section 21 notice? 

doodling

Hi,

RAS said:

moneysavinghero said:

bertie1979 said:

sorry also when you say, they have to inform me of being my new landlords, does a text suffice or do they have to complete forms or something?

The law says they have to inform you in writing and to give their full name and address. I am guessing they did not put all of that in a text. Whether or not a text counts as 'in writing' i'm not sure.

Has your new landlord written to you supplying the required information?

This is a good question - have you received some form of communication from your new landlord saying "I'm XXXXX of YYY address and I am now your landlord"?  If you haven't then my first response to the solicitors would be "Thankyou for your letter but it is not clear to me how XXXXX has any standing in relation to xxxxxxxxxx.  Is it possible that they have now purchased the property but have failed to notify me in accordance with the Landlord & Tenant Act 1985 S3?".

Doing that probably won't buy you any time - any competent solicitor will simply rewrite the letter with the same content but starting with the required notification, but who knows if they are competent?

And remind the EA and the solicitor that the LL and EA rescinded the notice at the end of March, although they messaged a week later changing their minds. 

This will depend on exactly who said what.  Until the new LL has served notice that they are in fact the new LL then anything they said has no bearing on the tenancy.  If the EA, assuming they were the previous LL's agent, said that the OP could stay then this effectively cancels the S21 - of course it only really matters if the OP can prove this - i.e. the EA said it unambiguously in writing.

If the S21 hasn't been rescinded then it is still valid (subject to all the other things which might invalidate a S21), despite being issued by the previous landlord and the solicitors can proceed with the court proceedings.

With respect to the gas fire, then yes, it does need a safety check.  This will probably invalidate the S21.  Has there ever been a certificate in place for the fire?  You will need to note that as part of your defence when you receive the notice of court proceedings.  Have you gone through the S21 checklist and confirmed that everything else is in order?

Ultimately you will end up having to move out so keep looking.  From the email from the EA, it appears that you are not looking for a property through them - is there a reason for this?  At the very least, emails from the EA letting out the property saying that they can't find you somewhere else might be helpful in convincing a court to give you a few weeks longer to move out when the landlord is eventually successful in obtaining a court order.

bertie1979

Thanks for all the info.

regarding the fire, I'll have to double check the original tenancy document, as it has oil central heating i didn't really pay much attention to that, but either way a gas safety certificate has NOT been carried out for over 17 months.

Obviously it's quite a complicated case in that the S21, which has been correctly filed (it was incorrectly filed previously and they then had to give me a new 6 month notice period)  by the previous landlord was due to expire end of May, the new landlord bought the property start of April (after speaking to me a few times since December on the phone and via letting agent that they wanted me to sign a new contract - hence why i stopped looking), so there's been a bit of a cross over, but from what i understand failure to complete a S03 notice is a summary offence not exceeding level 4 (think that's £2500).

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1985/70/section/3

So is advice to wait for court proceedings or do I contact the solicitor detailing these issues?