Late son pension benefits

AnotherJoe

cfccare3 said:

Thank you all for replies and thoughts.
I have noted that my original post was autocorrected and should have read Allianz. My son was never married and their relationship was a poor one after the split. My son had left Allianz two years prior to his death so no lump payment was involved. It seems unjust that he paid into a pension fund for 16 years and neither him or his children will receive any benefit.
I really don't care about the money but it does seem unjust.
Would the same reply have been received if he was married and still in his relationship?
What happens to the contributions that he paid in?
Thanks again for all your replies.

It all depends on the type of pension.

If its a DB pension* then there  isn't really a specific sum allocated to it and payments not made to someone because they died before receiving any, or a shorter time after retiring than would be expected from life expectancy, go to people who die in service and whose benefits do pay out, or who live much longer than average.  So it all balances out.

It's not really any different to asking "what happened to the money I paid for fire insurance on my house because i never had a fire?" 

Its a pooled investment. If you want to get it all back, it would be wildly expensive and no one would take it out. 

And to answer another Q, yes if he was still working then it would have paid out to his nominated beneficiary and children until they stopped education (in general). again this is all part of keeping the costs affordable.

* If its a DC then there is a sum allocated to each individual and there's no averaging and the sum would go to whoever was nominated by him. But the overall pension woudl likely be smaller.

Silvertabby

Further to Joe's comments, if this was a DC scheme then it's still possible that your son's contributions were refunded to his nominated beneficiary, which could still have been his ex even if they were never married.

However, OP's comment in post 1 - that the scheme trustees had considered the payment of children's pensions but had decided not to exercise their discretion - sounds more like a DB to me.  If so, there would be no spouse's pension as they weren't married (or living together) but a deferred lump sum could have been paid to the ex.  The refusal of children's pensions is still a puzzle though.  OP was your son named as the father on their birth certificates? If not, and view of the fact that he was never married to the children's mother, could explain the trustee's decision.

cfccare3

Hello. Yes my son is the biological father of my grandchildren, is named on their birth certificates and both have his Surname.

Silvertabby

cfccare3 said:

Hello. Yes my son is the biological father of my grandchildren, is named on their birth certificates and both have his Surname.

Then the only other thing I can think of ( if this was a DB scheme) is that the trustees didn't believe that the children were financially dependent on your son.

I'm sorry that we haven't been able to give you the answers you wanted re the children, but it's almost certain that their mother will have received some sort of payment in lieu of your son's contributions.

[Deleted User]

Are the grandchildren under 18 or in full time education?

cfccare3

The children are 10 and 12 yrs of age. They live with use approx. 4 days per week . We cater for along with their other grandparents most of their daily needs. 

Silvertabby

cfccare3 said:

The children are 10 and 12 yrs of age. They live with use approx. 4 days per week . We cater for along with their other grandparents most of their daily needs. 

So they don't actually live with their mum?  In that case, IF the scheme is a DB, then that makes the trustees decision even odder.

First thing to do is to find out, if you can, if the pension scheme was DC or DB.  Sounds like you have some paperwork, so the details may be in there. 

Sandtree

cfccare3 said:

What happens to the contributions that he paid in?

Was it a Defined Benefit (aka final salary) or Defined Contribution pension?

Assuming it was DB then there is no discrete member level pot of money but an overall fund that is there to pay everyone's pension. Given the pension has to pay "for life" and a set amount they have no idea if any given member is going to live until 45, 75 or 105 but they know that on average a person will live to 80 (or whatever the number) and provision effectively on that basis that means those that live longer than that are effectively paid for by the ones that pass away before that. 

xylophone

The OP indicates that her late son was employed by AC between 2001 and 2017.

https://www.professionalpensions.com/news/1440611/allianz-appoints-aon-consulting-administrator

ALLIANZ Cornhill has appointed Aon Consulting to administer its closed defined benefit scheme on behalf of 7000 members following a "comprehensive beauty parade".

The DB scheme, which closed to new members in April 2001, forms part of the general insurers hybrid £450m Retirement and Death Benefits Fund which includes a DC section with more than 2000 members. 

Did he just make it into the DB Scheme?

If a person has a  deferred DB pension and dies before the pension becomes payable, it is normal for some form of death benefit/pension to become payable to a widow/widower (possibly "partner") and (in many schemes) to dependent children who are infants/in full time education or training. 

It is usual for a member of the scheme to complete a form of nomination in respect of death benefits (and although this is not binding on the Trustees, it would be unusual for it to be disregarded).

If the OP's late son had a DB pension, it may be that in the scheme there was no provision for a "partner" but that there was provision for dependent children at the Trustees' discretion.

If the above was the case, then the Trustees have refused to exercise their discretion in favour of the children - it is unclear whether any reason for the decision has been given.

If the pension was DC, there should have been a "pot" - what happened to it? Had a nomination been completed in favour of the estranged partner and never rescinded?

If it was DB and the Trustees have refused as above, is there any possibility of appeal?

The OP might like to ring TPAS to get specific advice on the matter

https://www.gov.uk/pensions-advisory-service