Late son pension benefits

cfccare3

Hello

We lost our son last year.

My son died on 25th January 2019

He was estranged from his former partner with whom he had my 2 grandchildren and paid nearly £700 per month in child support.

He worked for Alliance and paid into their retirement and death benefit scheme for approx 16yrs before leaving the company.

I have been pursuing this pension on behalf of my grandchildren since the loss of my son.

Today I have received the response that states

."..the trustees have responded to advise that they are unable to exercise their discretion to pay a child's pension to Mr King's children. I have therefore closed the records that were made in respect of these benefits and can confirm that you will not receive any further correspondence from us in respect of this. I sincerely apologise for the long delay in providing you with this update"

I am very upset and disappointed in these comments and can't understand where the "death benefits" part of his policy comes into play.

Any advice would be gratefully received.

Albermarle

Sorry for your loss.
The pension trustees have discretion regarding paying any pension benefits but I agree it is strange that there is no mention of the 'Death in Service ' payment . 
Your son will probably have indicated on a form in the past who any death in service benefits should be paid. Possible he put his wife and then never changed it and she has received the money ? Just a guess.

dunstonh

He worked for Alliance and paid into their retirement and death benefit scheme for approx 16yrs before leaving the company.

If its the Alliance scheme and not the Boots scheme then that is a defined contribution scheme (unless it is a different Alliance pension scheme you are referring to).  The value of the L&G pension would be paid out.     There was a "life assurance" (as they refer to it) and it says they payout this and the value of the pension to the nominated beneficiary.      If he left the beneficiary as the mother of his children then that would not likely be something that could be disputed.  

There is no child pension on the scheme.

Marcon

Albermarle said:

Sorry for your loss.
The pension trustees have discretion regarding paying any pension benefits but I agree it is strange that there is no mention of the 'Death in Service ' payment . 
Your son will probably have indicated on a form in the past who any death in service benefits should be paid. Possible he put his wife and then never changed it and she has received the money ? Just a guess.

I think you've overlooked the fact OP says he had already left the company, so no death in service payment would be payable because he wasn't in service at the time of his sad early death.

Albermarle

Marcon said:

Albermarle said:

Sorry for your loss.
The pension trustees have discretion regarding paying any pension benefits but I agree it is strange that there is no mention of the 'Death in Service ' payment . 
Your son will probably have indicated on a form in the past who any death in service benefits should be paid. Possible he put his wife and then never changed it and she has received the money ? Just a guess.

I think you've overlooked the fact OP says he had already left the company, so no death in service payment would be payable because he wasn't in service at the time of his sad early death.

Yes you are right , well spotted . 

Marcon

cfccare3 said:

I am very upset and disappointed in these comments and can't understand where the "death benefits" part of his policy comes into play.

A truly horrible loss for you as well as his children.

To answer your question about 'death benefits' - I've just had a look at the website and I can see why you might have been misled by the wording on the summary page where it refers to 'If you die - life assurance cover' (https://ahb-ukpensionportal.co.uk/alliance-healthcare-boots-retirement-savings-plan/benefits/)

Reading the factsheet for leavers gives the answer to your query:
'Members of the AHBRSP  benefit from life assurance cover while working for the Company, so you should consider taking out alternative cover once you leave or retire'.

I'm sorry that isn't what you hoped to hear.

Silvertabby

I'm still inclined to think that there may have been a deferred benefits death grant, usually payable to a nominated beneficiary, and that  this was paid to the ex wife.  

OP, are you in touch with the mother of your grandchildren?  If you can ask her if she received a lump sum, then at least you'll know that the children will receive some benefit from your son's pension.

My sympathies.

Marcon

Silvertabby said:

I'm still inclined to think that there may have been a deferred benefits death grant, usually payable to a nominated beneficiary, and that  this was paid to the ex wife.  

OP, are you in touch with the mother of your grandchildren?  If you can ask her if she received a lump sum, then at least you'll know that the children will receive some benefit from your son's pension.

My sympathies.

There's a return of fund (I think 'death grant' tends to be used in public sector schemes but that particular bit of terminology isn't often seen in private sector schemes. I make the point only to try and help OP avoid heading down a blind alley purely on the basis of a different way of describing something), which as you suggest is likely to be have been paid to the mother of OP's grandchildren.

dunstonh

I'm still inclined to think that there may have been a deferred benefits death grant, usually payable to a nominated beneficiary, and that  this was paid to the ex wife.  

The old boots scheme had death in service.  However, the Alliance scheme is just a group personal pension  with a group life assurance bolted on which is only applicable to current employees.   The pension is return of fund though.

Remember that the OP says they were not working for them any more.  I suspect the OP is thinking of the DB scheme rather than the DC scheme.

jamesd

dunstonh said:

... a defined contribution scheme ...   If he left the beneficiary as the mother of his children then that would not likely be something that could be disputed.  

Hmm, changing to in trust for the children instead of her seems sensible if the expression of wishes was before the estrangement and there were no ongoing payments to her. 

cfccare3, money in trust for children can be properly used for their food, clothing, housing and presents to them. Depending on the pension value and their ages it could be easy to spend it all on those things before they reach adulthood, freeing the mother of those costs so she benefits anyway. It's entirely possible that dropping the matter is now best.

cfccare3

Thank you all for replies and thoughts.
I have noted that my original post was autocorrected and should have read Allianz. My son was never married and their relationship was a poor one after the split. My son had left Allianz two years prior to his death so no lump payment was involved. It seems unjust that he paid into a pension fund for 16 years and neither him or his children will receive any benefit.
I really don't care about the money but it does seem unjust.
Would the same reply have been received if he was married and still in his relationship?
What happens to the contributions that he paid in?
Thanks again for all your replies.