NHS Pension missing years

loak

I joined the NHS in the 1970's and worked on off for about nearly 10 years, and returning to the NHS in the late 1990s. When I applied for my NHS pension  the NHS omitted to include the years worked in the 1970's a 1980's. I tried to claim the missing years of pension without success. Finally the Ombudsman told me that I have to go through the courts to resolve this issue. the expense of this is scaring me as I am no longer working and it is also difficult to find a Solicitor who takes such cases. I don't know what other actions to take and how to proceed with this. Please help. thanks

Marcon

I presume this was the Pensions Ombudsman? Not sure anyone here will be able to help if that's the verdict, given by someone who has seen all the relevant paperwork and knows what he's talking about.

You say you worked 'on and off'. Any idea how long each individual period of service was? If they were quite short periods, you may simply have had a refund of contributions in the final pay packet for each period.

See also https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/pensions/article-7563643/I-nurse-NHS-pension-records.html

Silvertabby

Pre 1988 you would have needed 5 years service in order to accrue actual pension rights.  If you had a number of sub 5 year stints,  and if you were under 25 when you left,  you will have automatically been paid a refund of your contributions.   If you were over 25 you should have offered the choice of a refund or a transfer to another scheme.  Does that ring any bells?  

Another thought - were you full or part time?  Back then part timers couldn't join the pension scheme.

hyubh

loak said:

I joined the NHS in the 1970's and worked on off for about nearly 10 years, and returning to the NHS in the late 1990s. When I applied for my NHS pension  the NHS omitted to include the years worked in the 1970's a 1980's.

You are likely to need evidence of what you actually worked. This potted history indicates waiting periods of 2 years (i.e. before someone could join the scheme at all), vesting periods of 5 years (i.e. minimum membership required to earn a pension), and a requirement if part time to work at least 50% full time hours:  
https://www.nhsbsa.nhs.uk/sites/default/files/2018-01/NHS Pension Scheme Useful Dates-20180122-(V2).pdf

If you don't still have any paperwork from the 70s and 80s, what about any benefit statements from the late 90s and 00s? Did they show historic service...?

Brynsam

Silvertabby said:

Pre 1988 you would have needed 5 years service in order to accrue actual pension rights.  If you had a number of sub 5 year stints,  and if you were under 25 when you left,  you will have automatically been paid a refund of your contributions.   If you were over 25 you should have offered the choice of a refund or a transfer to another scheme.  Does that ring any bells?  

Another thought - were you full or part time?  Back then part timers couldn't join the pension scheme.

Quite - so I wonder why the Ombudsman has said OP needs to go through the courts to resolve the issue?

OP - as asked above, which Ombudsman? And exactly what was said? You are very unlikely to find a solicitor (and you'd need a specialist, not just a regular high street lawyer) to take the case because the prospect of success is so minimal.

Dox

loak said:

Finally the Ombudsman told me that I have to go through the courts to resolve this issue. the expense of this is scaring me as I am no longer working and it is also difficult to find a Solicitor who takes such cases. I don't know what other actions to take and how to proceed with this. Please help. thanks

Did the Ombudsman say that? I rather doubt it. Even assuming the Ombudsman accepted the case (could have been time barred), it is more likely the Ombudsman found no conclusive grounds for confirming you had an NHS pension dating back to the 70s/80s and has said that if you wished to pursue the matter further you are able to do so through the courts. 

loak

Thanks for all your comments however when I say that I explored my issue extensively , I did. I went back to the NHS pensions, Pension Ombudsman and TPAS. My years of service exceeds the 5 years period and I did not have any refunds. I have copies of all my records to prove this. There are a lot of ex-NHS employees in my position who has written to Steve Webb, former Pensions Minister, for advise but did not receive any constructive advise. So I would really appreciate some advise, including legal, to go forward please.
Many thanks
Kind regards
Loak

hyubh

loak said:

Thanks for all your comments however when I say that I explored my issue extensively , I did. I went back to the NHS pensions, Pension Ombudsman and TPAS. My years of service exceeds the 5 years period and I did not have any refunds. I have copies of all my records to prove this.

Interesting - you have hard evidence (40 year old payslips?) of 5 years continuous service (not just 5 years service in total), during which you met the full time hour and other eligibly requirements of the time, yet both TPAS and the Ombudsman rejected it? What did they say...?

Silvertabby

I don't know how the NHS archive their records, but the LGPS keep basement/paper files indefinitely.  I would have thought that if that was the case, then they would have backed up their reply with some form of evidence.

That said, when someone rang me (now retired LGPS administrator) to say that they wanted to claim their pension from the 1970s/80s, and I didn't have an on-line record for them, my first question would be 'did you take a refund of your contribution'.  They would say they didn't, so that meant a trip to the paper files in the basement.  Not finding a file was the hardest to prove - that usually meant that the member had opted out before a pension record could be set up for them.  The response then was to ask the caller if they had  payslips showing pension contributions.  In my time, no-one was able to produce payslips from that far back.  

The majority, however, had indeed taken refunds of their contributions.

OP  - how old were you back then?  If under 25, you would probably have been paid a refund automatically, so you may have just thought it was pay arrears?

The only other thing I can offer is that you ask your employer(s) from that time if they have archived pay records, which may show pension contributions - although they won't prove that you weren't later refunded by NHSP.

Tealblue

loak said:

Thanks for all your comments however when I say that I explored my issue extensively , I did. I went back to the NHS pensions, Pension Ombudsman and TPAS. My years of service exceeds the 5 years period and I did not have any refunds. I have copies of all my records to prove this. There are a lot of ex-NHS employees in my position who has written to Steve Webb, former Pensions Minister, for advise but did not receive any constructive advise. So I would really appreciate some advise, including legal, to go forward please.
Many thanks
Kind regards
Loak

You may have had a period of (?)continuous(?) service which exceeded five years, but were you a member of the pension scheme for the whole time? If you have records 'proving' this, why were TPAS not able to help? Does your state pension forecast show you as being contracted out of SERPS in the late 1970s/early 1980s?

Exactly what reasons did the Pensions Ombudsman give for not finding in your favour? Nobody here can give useful thoughts about how to 'go forward' without knowing that.

Marcon

loak said:

Thanks for all your comments however when I say that I explored my issue extensively , I did. I went back to the NHS pensions, Pension Ombudsman and TPAS. My years of service exceeds the 5 years period and I did not have any refunds. I have copies of all my records to prove this. There are a lot of ex-NHS employees in my position who has written to Steve Webb, former Pensions Minister, for advise but did not receive any constructive advise. So I would really appreciate some advise, including legal, to go forward please.
Many thanks
Kind regards
Loak

You say your 'years of service' exceeds the 5 year period, but you also say you 'joined the NHS in the 1970's and worked on off for about nearly 10 years'. If the breaks between periods of service were a month or more, those periods would not be amalgamated and there must be a possibility that you did not have the requisite five years of continuous pensionable employment  and were aged at least 26 (not 25) when your reached the five-year mark. 

I'm not sure what you think Steve Webb can add to what he has already said about this issue in the article referred to above. Link repeated here for ease of reference:  https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/pensions/article-7563643/I-nurse-NHS-pension-records.html

You say there are 'a lot of ex-NHS employees in your position' but looking at the determinations (jargon for outcome of cases) on the Pensions Ombudsman's website, it is highly likely than many of them have simply not understood the membership conditions required to qualify for a deferred pension. I've read through a number to try and find something comparable which might clear the fog a bit, and this about the closest I can find: https://www.pensions-ombudsman.org.uk/decision/2019/po-25348/nhs-pension-scheme-po-25348

Given that your case has been rejected by the NHS, TPAS couldn't resolve it and the Pensions Ombudsman has rejected it, it is difficult to see why you think a court would give a different finding. On what possible basis would they do so? The Ombudsman won't have recommended that route; he will simply have indicated that it is open to you to do so now his investigation has concluded.