NATIONAL RAILCARD - SENIOR RAILCARD REFUNDS DUE TO COVID-19 DISRUPTION

[Deleted User]

epm-84 said:

eskbanker said:

epm-84 said:

I think the important consideration is how much have you saved by using the railcard so far vs how much did you pay for it?

I'm not convinced that this is particularly important - obviously railcard holders can do the maths if they like, which would illustrate whether or not they've benefitted financially from having one, but it would be an academic exercise that doesn't actually change anything, i.e. there's no entitlement to refunds or extensions regardless of whether or not the card was a net benefit.

The way the original post is worded suggested the holder thought she was legally entitled to a refund because of not being able to travel by train for a few months, so I gave that example as an alternative way of looking at it.  Possibly she's already saved more money than she spent on the railcard, in which case why should she get a refund?  However, it's also possible she bought it to make a small saving on a regular journey.  There just isn't enough information in the original post to be sure.

eskbanker said:

epm-84 said:

However, unless the service on the line you normally use was suspended, with no replacement buses operating AND you made alternative arrangements to make the journey you would have made by train e.g. taxi then unfortunately I don't think you can pursue it further.

I don't believe it's possible to pursue it further whatever the scenario.  Apart from anything else, railcards are sold by a national entity but services are actually provided by the individual train operating companies, who will doubtless have been entitled to suspend or reduce services during the exceptional circumstances, without financial obligation to would-be passengers (except some season ticket holders who do have some rights, and those with reservations on specific services, but not casual occasional travellers).

Not quite.  While a train service may be operated by a company belonging to First, Arriva, Stagecoach etc. it is the government who sets the franchise requirements for each franchise.  In March this year they worked with the train operators to find a way of reducing rail services countrywide to save money, given the franchise agreements in place required the government to provide revenue support to train operators if passenger numbers were lower than the terms the franchise was let on.  The only exceptions being Northern and LNER - already government run which made it easier for the government to cut services and Grand Central and Hull Trains - open access operators who have no requirement to run trains.

Railcards are provided by the Rail Delivery Group, which is basically a body which all the train operators belong to.  It's actually quite similar to the Nectar cards being usable at retailers who are members of the scheme (although of course there's no annual fee to have a Nectar card.)

I would suggest in the scenario I did describe, if you wanted to pursue it further then you should do so in the form of a compliant to the train operator who didn't provide the service and detailing how you lost out financially due to the service being withdrawn without notice, not to complain to the railcard issuer who have done their job in providing the railcard and who I don't think have records of every ticket an individual holding a railcard has purchased.  I don't think if you are successful you'll get much in the form of compensation but you might get a couple of complimentary vouchers as a gesture of goodwill.

😱 so much gobbledygook!  Bottom line is?  No refund? 

Norah_Bone

OK - well  I thank you all for your comments - I get the no refund bit but comments about a free lunch are an insult to the older generation that has paid its way for years and is now expected to just suck it up instead of getting what they paid for. The choice to travel was taken away by Covid-19 - circumstances beyond their control and even now they are told don't travel you're a high risk - unless you have to go to work of course - then it seems you are impervious .Please don't bother to reply it would not serve any purpose. Just remember one day you will be part of this forgotten generation that's "had a good innings" or "a good run" and is now merely an inconvenience and easily over-looked by society. 

Hasbeen

Norah_Bone said:

OK - well  I thank you all for your comments - I get the no refund bit but comments about a free lunch are an insult to the older generation that has paid its way for years and is now expected to just suck it up instead of getting what they paid for. The choice to travel was taken away by Covid-19 - circumstances beyond their control and even now they are told don't travel you're a high risk - unless you have to go to work of course - then it seems you are impervious .Please don't bother to reply it would not serve any purpose. Just remember one day you will be part of this forgotten generation that's "had a good innings" or "a good run" and is now merely an inconvenience and easily over-looked by society. 

So in the same situation as the 16 to 25yrs railcard holders then, especially the ones with underlying health conditions?  

bradders1983

How about those who have the Two Together Railcard who also arent old fogeys?

bagand96

Norah_Bone said:

OK - well  I thank you all for your comments - I get the no refund bit but comments about a free lunch are an insult to the older generation that has paid its way for years and is now expected to just suck it up instead of getting what they paid for. The choice to travel was taken away by Covid-19 - circumstances beyond their control and even now they are told don't travel you're a high risk - unless you have to go to work of course - then it seems you are impervious .Please don't bother to reply it would not serve any purpose. Just remember one day you will be part of this forgotten generation that's "had a good innings" or "a good run" and is now merely an inconvenience and easily over-looked by society. 

As others have said, Railcards are available to far more groups than just Seniors.

With regards to advice not to travel for older people , it is just advice. Like anyone else, you can choose to follow that advice, or not if you feel the risk is acceptable (whilst of course following any local or national restrictions that are in force).

[Deleted User]

Norah_Bone said:

OK - well  I thank you all for your comments - I get the no refund bit but comments about a free lunch are an insult to the older generation that has paid its way for years and is now expected to just suck it up instead of getting what they paid for. The choice to travel was taken away by Covid-19 - circumstances beyond their control and even now they are told don't travel you're a high risk - unless you have to go to work of course - then it seems you are impervious .Please don't bother to reply it would not serve any purpose. Just remember one day you will be part of this forgotten generation that's "had a good innings" or "a good run" and is now merely an inconvenience and easily over-looked by society. 

Really don’t think there were any insults there Norah.  More like people just saying how it is!   The fact is there is never any agreement on just how many journeys will be made by anyone on any rail card so how would rail companies decide who might have not got their monies worth?   Fact is pensioners as well as everyone else could have had many journeys between July and September (some restructuring again for local lockdowns which will pass).   

The “poor” pensioner claim doesn’t work because it is simply not true.  You are seeking unnecessary pity but why do you think you are more deserving in this case?   

Please don’t say I will understand in time because I have been collecting state pension for 4 years but still have to work to supplement.  I couldn’t afford to “shield” so count your blessings and make the most of any journey you can before your card expires.  

Hasbeen

bagand96 said:

Norah_Bone said:

OK - well  I thank you all for your comments - I get the no refund bit but comments about a free lunch are an insult to the older generation that has paid its way for years and is now expected to just suck it up instead of getting what they paid for. The choice to travel was taken away by Covid-19 - circumstances beyond their control and even now they are told don't travel you're a high risk - unless you have to go to work of course - then it seems you are impervious .Please don't bother to reply it would not serve any purpose. Just remember one day you will be part of this forgotten generation that's "had a good innings" or "a good run" and is now merely an inconvenience and easily over-looked by society. 

As others have said, Railcards are available to far more groups than just Seniors.

With regards to advice not to travel for older people , it is just advice. Like anyone else, you can choose to follow that advice, or not if you feel the risk is acceptable (whilst of course following any local or national restrictions that are in force).

As above, other railcards.

16-25 Railcard

For those aged 16-25, save a 1/3 off rail fares for days out, seeing family and friends and even festivals!

Senior Railcard

For those aged 60 and over, save 1/3 off rail fares for days out, holidays, seeing family and friends, and theatre trips!

Two Together Railcard

For two named people travelling together, get an average annual saving of £129 plus special partner discounts!

Disabled Persons Railcard

If you have a disability that makes travelling by train difficult, you may qualify for a Disabled Persons Railcard

26-30 Railcard

Valid for those aged 26-30. For just £30, save 1/3 on most rail fares to travel across Britain for a year!

Family & Friends Railcard

Childred aged 5-15 get 60% discount on kids fares! Up to four adults and four children can travel on one card.

Network Railcard

For those travelling in the South East, aged 16 or over. Get an average annual saving of £191 plus partner discounts.

For those aged 16 or 17. Enjoy 50% off standard Anytime, Off-Peak, Advance and Season tickets, for just £30 a year.

Aylesbury_Duck

Norah_Bone said:

OK - well  I thank you all for your comments - I get the no refund bit but comments about a free lunch are an insult to the older generation that has paid its way for years and is now expected to just suck it up instead of getting what they paid for. The choice to travel was taken away by Covid-19 - circumstances beyond their control and even now they are told don't travel you're a high risk - unless you have to go to work of course - then it seems you are impervious .Please don't bother to reply it would not serve any purpose. Just remember one day you will be part of this forgotten generation that's "had a good innings" or "a good run" and is now merely an inconvenience and easily over-looked by society. 

You seem to be suggesting that older generations should bear a lesser proportion of the costs of the pandemic than younger people, on the basis that they've "paid their way for years"?  That's certainly an interesting take on it...

Butts

Honestly I don't see what all the fuss is about.
You can get the value of the card or more back in one trip with a tasty 1st Class Advanced Ticket.