Airing cupboard asbestos possibly missed in survey... can I hold them to account?

HobgoblinBT

Asbestos is only dangerous if you disturb it.  We have just suffered a flood from a leaking pipe which has damaged the floor covering and the original 1960s vinyl floor tiles.  The tiles have tested negative for asbestos, but there is asbestos in the bitumen damp inhibitor, between the concrete floor and the vinyl tiles.  The solution put forward from the buildings surveyor is for the floor to be painted in waterproof pva to contain any risk.  Can your boards be painted with waterproof pva, which costs less than £20 from screwfix?  Add in a mask and some latex gloves and you still have change from £30 and the asbestos risk has been mitigated.

Zoe1345

Davesnave said:

The surveyors explicitly warned that they had not checked for asbestos-containing materials and couldn't do so, although as an informal part of their service they intended to draw attention to potential asbestos products they saw.

The surveyor apparently didn't see this board, so their bottoms are covered, regardless of what it is.

Yes, lots of covering a***s in surveys so I'm now aware. However, there are several pictures of the inside of the cupboard contained in the survey, so he 100% looked in there. If they cannot recognise something that is apparently so common as a sheet of board at least on the back of the door, then why would they even make a comment on the ceilings. Thats my issue. Clearly they aren't competent to make any comment what so ever - so they shouldn't!  

Davesnave

HobgoblinBT said:

Asbestos is only dangerous if you disturb it.  We have just suffered a flood from a leaking pipe which has damaged the floor covering and the original 1960s vinyl floor tiles.  The tiles have tested negative for asbestos, but there is asbestos in the bitumen damp inhibitor, between the concrete floor and the vinyl tiles.  The solution put forward from the buildings surveyor is for the floor to be painted in waterproof pva to contain any risk.  Can your boards be painted with waterproof pva, which costs less than £20 from screwfix?  Add in a mask and some latex gloves and you still have change from £30 and the asbestos risk has been mitigated.

I am no trades person, but where I am 'waterproof PVA' is called SBR.

Zoe1345

HobgoblinBT said:

Asbestos is only dangerous if you disturb it.  We have just suffered a flood from a leaking pipe which has damaged the floor covering and the original 1960s vinyl floor tiles.  The tiles have tested negative for asbestos, but there is asbestos in the bitumen damp inhibitor, between the concrete floor and the vinyl tiles.  The solution put forward from the buildings surveyor is for the floor to be painted in waterproof pva to contain any risk.  Can your boards be painted with waterproof pva, which costs less than £20 from screwfix?  Add in a mask and some latex gloves and you still have change from £30 and the asbestos risk has been mitigated.

From my rudimentary research, I'm not sure a coat of PVA is going to cut it on the bit of broken board. But sealing is certain a possibility if there is a safe way to do so. We will still unfortunately be left with the issue when we sell (which we may end up doing sooner than expected due to a possible relocation) of a buyer raising the issue, I guess its another hurdle to jump when we need to.
For now I'll keep fingers, toes, everything that is crossable, crossed, that it comes back negative!  

Davesnave

Zoe1345 said:

Davesnave said:

The surveyors explicitly warned that they had not checked for asbestos-containing materials and couldn't do so, although as an informal part of their service they intended to draw attention to potential asbestos products they saw.

The surveyor apparently didn't see this board, so their bottoms are covered, regardless of what it is.

  If they cannot recognise something that is apparently so common as a sheet of board at least on the back of the door, then why would they even make a comment on the ceilings. That's my issue. Clearly they aren't competent to make any comment what so ever - so they shouldn't!  

How would their making no comment at all make the situation better?

I have some sort of cement and fibre board in my barn which I'm certain doesn't contain any asbestos, but it looks the part. Is it possible the surveyor spotted something like that in your boiler cupboard and discounted it? There remains the possibility that the surveyor knows more than you think they know.

Zoe1345

Davesnave said:

Zoe1345 said:

Davesnave said:

The surveyors explicitly warned that they had not checked for asbestos-containing materials and couldn't do so, although as an informal part of their service they intended to draw attention to potential asbestos products they saw.

The surveyor apparently didn't see this board, so their bottoms are covered, regardless of what it is.

  If they cannot recognise something that is apparently so common as a sheet of board at least on the back of the door, then why would they even make a comment on the ceilings. That's my issue. Clearly they aren't competent to make any comment what so ever - so they shouldn't!  

How would their making no comment at all make the situation better?

I have some sort of cement and fibre board in my barn which I'm certain doesn't contain any asbestos, but it looks the part. Is it possible the surveyor spotted something like that in your boiler cupboard and discounted it? There remains the possibility that the surveyor knows more than you think they know.

The idea about not saying anything at all being better, is that by mentioning minor possibilities of areas to investigate for possible asbestos elsewhere it offers a sense of a) competence and b) that any minor risks will be mentioned even if a complete over reaction. By mentioning a minor risk in the ceilings, one would assume that a minor risk elsewhere would also be noted. Especially pertinent as it turns out boiler/airing cupboards are a grade a high risk area for potential asbestos (who knew - not me before now, but certainly anyone else with a minor knowledge of asbestos). As a result of the structure and content of the report, asbestos in the wall boards didn't even cross my mind to consider.  
But indeed, you are 100 right here. Hopefully the test proves that the surveyor knew what he was talking about (although he couldn;t even count to 5 to get the correct garage to survey - so lets not hold out too much hope ) 

AdrianC

Zoe1345 said:

We've no proof it was damaged by him either unfortunately and not already damaged, as there was a tank in there before he installed the new boiler that would have covered the damaged spot (it's my suspicion that was when it was done - which isn't worth the paper is written on). 

So this board was behind the old HW tank...? And only became visible when the tank was removed and the new boiler fitted to it? (Which would have involved drilling and cutting holes in it, btw)

How did you expect the surveyor to see it?

Zoe1345

AdrianC said:

Zoe1345 said:

We've no proof it was damaged by him either unfortunately and not already damaged, as there was a tank in there before he installed the new boiler that would have covered the damaged spot (it's my suspicion that was when it was done - which isn't worth the paper is written on). 

So this board was behind the old HW tank...? And only became visible when the tank was removed and the new boiler fitted to it? (Which would have involved drilling and cutting holes in it, btw)

How did you expect the surveyor to see it?

It's on the side of the cupboard as well, not just behind. You could see it clearly - just not as much of it as you can now without the tank in situ. And you could certainly see the bit attached to the back of the door. I wouldn't have queried otherwise - plenty of hidden thing in the house we've found that there was no way the surveyor would have seen. 
With the photos taken by the surveyor, they would have clearly seen it. As naïve as I am/was on asbestos, thankfully, I'm not so naïve to that level of common sense  

thearchitect

There are three issues here.

Firstly, the surveyor must have been negligent (which is different from wrong), the standard beign that set out in Hunter v Hanley or, to mix metaphors, that of the ordinary surveyor on the Clapham Omnibus.

Secondly, in the event that negligence can be proven then the surveyor will only be liable for the additional costs which the client incurred as a direct result of the failure to timeously identify the defect.  That is likely to be a different, and very often lesser, sum that the cost of remedying the defect.

Thirdly, the heating contractor's failure to comply with his own legal obligations under the H&SWA 1974 is the proximate cause of any spread of fibres.  The surveyor would therefore not, in my view, be liable for that portion of the works.

In my view, when taken together with the catch-all asbestos clause in the report, that OP's chances of success are at best modest.   His solicitor will be best advised to provide meaningful comment but - to put this in perspective - even a straightforward expert report from another surveyor will typically cost in excess of £2,000 plus VAT.   The cost of remedying the defect is likely to be significantly less.