Homebuyers Report

pcwep8

Hi,
I was hoping to get some advice please. I've recently had a homebuyers report back which has came up with a number of 2s and 3s. I've asked the buyer if I can get specialists in to check them and he's said that I can but he would be unwilling to drop the price. Could you let me know what you think about the severity of these defects please?

E2 Roof Coverings
The main roof frame is pitched and covered with slates laid on battens. Significant damp staining was noted to the purlins and rafters within the roof space, whilst some slates are out of alignment whilst individual slates have slipped.
Ongoing slate slippage is likely due to progressive nail fatigue and repairs should be carried out to ensure that the roof remains weathertight and does not leak. It appears that the roof covering is reaching the end of its useful life and consideration should be given to replacing the covering in the short term. Condition Rating 3. Instruct an appropriate contractor to provide a report and estimate for these works and carry out all recommended repairs. Should the roof ultimately be recovered in concrete interlocking tiles or similar we would emphasise that these may be considerably heavier than the existing covering that, as a structural alteration, would require relevant Building Control approval. This might also entail the strengthening, collaring and bracing of roof timbers to minimise the risk of any long-term deflection. We noted the use of lead tingles (metal strips) to the front roof slope. These are used to support isolated slates where they have slipped as a result of defective slates or rusted nails. As stated above further slate slippage is likely and repairs should be anticipated. The extension roof is covered with interlocking concrete tiles. These types of tiles can become brittle and the surfaces granular as they age. The edges are also prone to cracking, in particular under the action of frost. In this instance, the covering appears to be in reasonable order. Normal ongoing maintenance will be required. Condition Rating 1. The weatherproofing between the extension roof covering and the adjacent wall (called the flashing) has started to deteriorate on the right-hand side and no longer provides adequate protection from water ingress. Whilst there were no signs of internal dampness at the time of inspection, repairs are now required to prevent this occurring in future. Some repairs to the flashing may involve disturbing the adjoining roof covering. Condition Rating 2.

E5 Windows External window casements are of double glazed UPVC, which provide increased sound and thermal insulation compared to single glazed windows. These are dated in design with external beading. This type of design is no longer in production as the beading and therefore the glass units can easily be removed which represents a security concern. Window within the front small bedroom are also screwed shut. You are advised to instruct an appropriate contractor to provide an estimate in respect to the replacement of the windows with a view to improving security at the property. A general overhaul / programme of replacement of the windows should be anticipated and it would be prudent to make appropriate budgetary provision. In the interim, gaps between window frames and adjoining masonry should be routinely raked out and resealed using a polysulphide mastic or similar. Condition Rating 2. Sealed glazing units are particularly vulnerable to failure over time resulting in water vapour entering the vacuum and in this instance their replacement would prove necessary. The relevant supplier's guarantee should therefore be obtained if available. The Glass & Glazing Federation advocates a guarantee of only five years on units of this type and this can be taken as a reasonable life expectancy. The design of the front elevation windows does not allow people to escape from a fire and is a safety hazard. In a fire, smoke can quickly trap occupants in a room and the lack of adequately sized escape windows in the front bedrooms will prevent them escaping or others rescuing them. To reduce this hazard, you should ask an appropriately qualified person for advice. Condition Rating 3. Inset double glazed units have failed within the front sliding porch doors and the right-hand side window on the entrance hallway, both of which require replacement as a result of water vapour condensing between the glazing sheets and causing it to mist up. Condition Rating 2.

F1 Roof Structure Structural roof timbers are of traditional design comprising purlins supporting rafters that in turn rest against an upper ridge board. These appear free from significant defect, although pattern staining, and soft timber was noted to rafters and purlins. This is not unusual for a property of this age and construction and should be minimised once the necessary recommended repairs are completed. Please also refer to section E2. We also noted minor bowing and deflection of structural timbers indicative of minor distortion of the roof frame, albeit that this appears longstanding with no evidence of recent movement having taken place.

HomeBuyer Report 19

Whilst this is not considered an immediate repair, in order to minimise the risk of progressive lateral movement it is a relatively simple and inexpensive operation to provide propping, collaring and reinforcement of structural timbers as necessary. Condition Rating 2. An original lime torching has been applied to the underside of the roof battens which in turn support the external roof covering. It was not possible to inspect all of the underside of the roof covering as a foil backed insulation membrane has been fixed to the underside of the roof which restricted our inspection. However, our limited inspection showed that the lime torching has deteriorated and there is evidence of water penetration into the roof void which may be causing damage or rot to the hidden structural roof timbers and repairs are required. The only effective remedy is to strip the existing roof covering in order to provide new underlay. This would not be economical unless replacing the roof covering at the same time. Condition Rating 3. You should instruct an appropriate contractor to provide a report and estimate for these works and carry out all recommended repairs.

F3 Rising and Penetrating Dampness Tests were taken with a moisture meter at random points to internal walls, floors and other surfaces and readings obtained indicate that dampness is present in some walls. Any timbers in contact with damp walls may be affected by rot. Plaster on walls affected by rising damp is likely to contain salts from the soil which attract moisture. Until such plaster is removed and replaced with a special plaster the walls will continue to attract moisture. Condition Rating 3.

F4 Floors Dampness has been noted to some walls. (See above section F3). Any structural floor timbers which are in contact with damp masonry are at risk from rot or decay and you should instruct a specialist firm to check the sub floor timbers for defects and again carry out appropriate remedial treatment as required. Condition Rating 3.

Some internal doors are partially glazed, and this represents an obvious safety hazard for young children. If retained these should ideally be replaced with toughened safety glass carrying the BS Kitemark. Condition Rating 3.

Aspects of visible fittings appear somewhat dated and do not comply with current regulations. You are advised to instruct a suitably qualified and registered electrical contractor to provide a test and report on the electrical apparatus and effect such upgrade works as may be required to comply with current regulations. Thereafter the installation should be retested every five years. Condition Rating 3.
Thanks

ciderboy2009

Looks like a typical report for an older house to me - just the surveyor covering his backside for most of it.

Nothing there that I would be particularly worried about although I would probably get somebody in to give the roof a quick once-over.  Preferably a local tradesman rather than a big national company salesman who is more likely to make up work required to hit his targets.

AdrianC

pcwep8 said:

E2 Roof Coverings
The main roof frame is pitched and covered with slates laid on battens. Significant damp staining was noted to the purlins and rafters within the roof space, whilst some slates are out of alignment whilst individual slates have slipped.
Ongoing slate slippage is likely due to progressive nail fatigue and repairs should be carried out to ensure that the roof remains weathertight and does not leak. It appears that the roof covering is reaching the end of its useful life and consideration should be given to replacing the covering in the short term. Condition Rating 3. Instruct an appropriate contractor to provide a report and estimate for these works and carry out all recommended repairs. Should the roof ultimately be recovered in concrete interlocking tiles or similar we would emphasise that these may be considerably heavier than the existing covering that, as a structural alteration, would require relevant Building Control approval. This might also entail the strengthening, collaring and bracing of roof timbers to minimise the risk of any long-term deflection. We noted the use of lead tingles (metal strips) to the front roof slope. These are used to support isolated slates where they have slipped as a result of defective slates or rusted nails. As stated above further slate slippage is likely and repairs should be anticipated. The extension roof is covered with interlocking concrete tiles. These types of tiles can become brittle and the surfaces granular as they age. The edges are also prone to cracking, in particular under the action of frost. In this instance, the covering appears to be in reasonable order. Normal ongoing maintenance will be required. Condition Rating 1. The weatherproofing between the extension roof covering and the adjacent wall (called the flashing) has started to deteriorate on the right-hand side and no longer provides adequate protection from water ingress. Whilst there were no signs of internal dampness at the time of inspection, repairs are now required to prevent this occurring in future. Some repairs to the flashing may involve disturbing the adjoining roof covering. Condition Rating 2.

The roof is what it is. Some tiles have broken or gone for a wander in the past, and there's signs that there's been water ingress. But individual tiles can be easily re-fixed or replaced.

E5 Windows External window casements are of double glazed UPVC, which provide increased sound and thermal insulation compared to single glazed windows. These are dated in design with external beading. This type of design is no longer in production as the beading and therefore the glass units can easily be removed which represents a security concern. Window within the front small bedroom are also screwed shut. You are advised to instruct an appropriate contractor to provide an estimate in respect to the replacement of the windows with a view to improving security at the property. A general overhaul / programme of replacement of the windows should be anticipated and it would be prudent to make appropriate budgetary provision. In the interim, gaps between window frames and adjoining masonry should be routinely raked out and resealed using a polysulphide mastic or similar. Condition Rating 2. Sealed glazing units are particularly vulnerable to failure over time resulting in water vapour entering the vacuum and in this instance their replacement would prove necessary. The relevant supplier's guarantee should therefore be obtained if available. The Glass & Glazing Federation advocates a guarantee of only five years on units of this type and this can be taken as a reasonable life expectancy. The design of the front elevation windows does not allow people to escape from a fire and is a safety hazard. In a fire, smoke can quickly trap occupants in a room and the lack of adequately sized escape windows in the front bedrooms will prevent them escaping or others rescuing them. To reduce this hazard, you should ask an appropriately qualified person for advice. Condition Rating 3.

The windows aren't particularly new, and they're made a bit differently now for more security and for better fire escape.

Inset double glazed units have failed within the front sliding porch doors and the right-hand side window on the entrance hallway, both of which require replacement as a result of water vapour condensing between the glazing sheets and causing it to mist up. Condition Rating 2.

There's a couple of blown units (but you saw them, right?)

F1 Roof Structure Structural roof timbers are of traditional design comprising purlins supporting rafters that in turn rest against an upper ridge board. These appear free from significant defect, although pattern staining, and soft timber was noted to rafters and purlins. This is not unusual for a property of this age and construction and should be minimised once the necessary recommended repairs are completed. Please also refer to section E2. We also noted minor bowing and deflection of structural timbers indicative of minor distortion of the roof frame, albeit that this appears longstanding with no evidence of recent movement having taken place.

HomeBuyer Report 19

Whilst this is not considered an immediate repair, in order to minimise the risk of progressive lateral movement it is a relatively simple and inexpensive operation to provide propping, collaring and reinforcement of structural timbers as necessary. Condition Rating 2. An original lime torching has been applied to the underside of the roof battens which in turn support the external roof covering. It was not possible to inspect all of the underside of the roof covering as a foil backed insulation membrane has been fixed to the underside of the roof which restricted our inspection. However, our limited inspection showed that the lime torching has deteriorated and there is evidence of water penetration into the roof void which may be causing damage or rot to the hidden structural roof timbers and repairs are required. The only effective remedy is to strip the existing roof covering in order to provide new underlay. This would not be economical unless replacing the roof covering at the same time. Condition Rating 3. You should instruct an appropriate contractor to provide a report and estimate for these works and carry out all recommended repairs.

The roof construction is what it is, and they do things differently these days. He couldn't see the inside of the roof because of insulation. But he's assuming the worst.

F3 Rising and Penetrating Dampness Tests were taken with a moisture meter at random points to internal walls, floors and other surfaces and readings obtained indicate that dampness is present in some walls. Any timbers in contact with damp walls may be affected by rot. Plaster on walls affected by rising damp is likely to contain salts from the soil which attract moisture. Until such plaster is removed and replaced with a special plaster the walls will continue to attract moisture. Condition Rating 3.

The paranoid buzzydampbox says the walls are wet. They might or might not be. Are there any other signs?

F4 Floors Dampness has been noted to some walls. (See above section F3). Any structural floor timbers which are in contact with damp masonry are at risk from rot or decay and you should instruct a specialist firm to check the sub floor timbers for defects and again carry out appropriate remedial treatment as required. Condition Rating 3.

The walls which might or might not be damp might or might not make the floors damp.

Some internal doors are partially glazed, and this represents an obvious safety hazard for young children. If retained these should ideally be replaced with toughened safety glass carrying the BS Kitemark. Condition Rating 3.

The non-safety glass in some doors might shred small children that run through them. Who knew?

Aspects of visible fittings appear somewhat dated and do not comply with current regulations. You are advised to instruct a suitably qualified and registered electrical contractor to provide a test and report on the electrical apparatus and effect such upgrade works as may be required to comply with current regulations. Thereafter the installation should be retested every five years. Condition Rating 3.

The electrics aren't the latest. He's not an electrician.
How old is the consumer unit? Is it bakelite and rewirable fuses, breakers, RCD, split RCD, plastic, metal?

princeofpounds

I disagree with ciderboy in one respect - the issue of water in the roofspace shouldn't be dismissed; the surveyor isn't using boilerplate language and has noted significant damp staining on the structural timbers, slipped tiles, some deflection, degraded torching and nails etc.. These were evident despite the inspection being hindered by a foil lining. All of the things he discusses are simply the consequence of an aged traditional slate roof, but the point he is making is that the roof is nearer the end of its lifespan than the beginning and that you should give serious consideration to repairs, reinforcement and/or replacement. You need to judge if this is something to address in the next year, or if some minor repair work will get you another decade or two out of the roof (that's what timescales can be like with a roof - they give you decades until you want them repaired before the very next rainfall!). So yes, I'd ask a good roofer to investigate. The seller clearly thinks it's the latter rather than the former, and they may well be right but it's worth checking.

The windows - yeah they are dated and some units have blown but it's not the biggest deal.

The electricity stuff is boilerplate back-covering; surveyors don't examine electrics in detail and no houses except very recent construction will meet code as it updates all the time.

The lower wall and floor dampness... probably not too important if no damage is evident. Moisture meters are not very reliable on walls at all. The surveyor is just noting the risk but this is back-covering to an extent as he cannot see the subfloor. If there is no unevenness or creaking of floorboards, no evidence of damp at the base of the walls or the edge of the floorboards... I wouldn't worry.

pcwep8

Thanks for the replies. I've asked a roofer to go and take a look at it tomorrow. To be honest I was on the verge of backing after the Homebuyers Report as there were so many 3's. I haven't seen many before and it's a shock when it comes back with so many defects, many of them appear to be ok to live with though.

NibblyPig

Homebuyers reports are always shocking! Even in a brand new house they'll find some way to alarm you. The roof needs checking out though. The seller may or may not budge on price but you need to know how much it'll cost to put right, I'd get a builder to come and take a look, often their solution to remedy things is different from the surveyor, as the surveyor tends to go for the nuclear replace everything and inspect everything and replace that too approach.

Consider if it costs £5000 to fix the roof, would you be able to handle that in a year's time if something fails? If you can't budget for that, get a quote.

Rambosmum

Little there I wouldn't have been able to see from the viewing - roof is old, may need replacing soon, should hav been visually obvious it wasn't new so replacement is always a concern. 

Windows - again, should have been able to see they weren't new but will likely last you a fair while yet. 

The doors, if you have kids, I'd put film on the doors - it's like stickyback plastic and whilst won' prevent the glass breaking, will prevent it smashing everywhere an reduce risk of harm. 

As for the damp, did it smell or feel damp? Was here mould, wallpaper peeling or paint flaking? If not, I wouldn't worry about it. 

Did you pay asking price? Did your offer reflect that a new roof may be needed (it should have done).

Sounds like it is a reasonably old house with dated decor and will likely have een priced accordingly. There's nothing in that report which would stop me buying it though I may try and negotiate a bit off to replace the roof if my offer hadn't reflected that. 

pcwep8

It didn't particularly feel damp, some of the decor was dated but that was to be expected.
We did start off with a lower offer but he would only accept asking price (it has been reduced by £10K a month ago).Everything is going pretty quick at the moment so we didn't want to hang about. He's said he's unwilling to take any money off, so if the roof is bad it may be a case of having to walk away.

Rambosmum

It's rare you will find a house that is perfect, and it is likely the house has been priced to reflect the work needed. 

Is a new roof enough reason for you to walk away? As a piece of work, it is relatively uninstructive - a new kitchen or bathroom is much more intrusive. 

If I were you, I would ask for a reduction before walking away.

pcwep8

Possibly depending on the damage, could be 8-10k. I don't think a reduction is on the cards. If I do go for a reduction I think it will be through the solicitor in future. 

ciderboy2009

What has the surveyor actually valued the house at?  If it matches what you're paying then that means that you're paying the right price for it in its current condition and I don't see how you could ask for any reduction.