What should I expect re Apple MacBook Pro with butterfly keyboard issues for second time

Sausage11

Hi All,

I bought an Apple MacBook Pro from John Lewis in September 2017 for £2,400 for work use.

Apple has admitted that the butterfly keyboards used by this and other laptops produced around this time are prone to keyboard failure. They therefore replace and repair the keyboards of affected laptops for free for up to 4 years from date of purchase.

Late 2019 the butterfly keyboard started to fail. I took the computer to an Apple retail store and they replaced the keyboard free of charge. This took around a week in total. I was without my work laptop for a week (I run my own business) which was very inconvenient. When I picked up the repaired computer I asked a member of staff what would happen if the keyboard were to fail again. I was told this was very unlikely.

Now, 10 months later, the new keyboard is already starting to fail. I spoke with Apple today. I can bring my computer in for another free repair. However, I have a number of concerns:

Even if I get the computer repaired (again), I will have to be without the laptop for work. This is inconvenient to say the least!

Given that the first keyboard failed after 2 years, then the second after 10 months, what confidence can I have that this computer will be reliable up to and beyond the 4th anniversary from purchase? One of the reasons I buy MacBook Pros is that they tend to be very reliable and last a long time. We also have a perfectly functional 2013 model as well as a 2020 model. (The 2020 model was only purchased as Apple had discontinued the butterfly keyboard for this model!)

Even if I have the computer repaired tomorrow, it may fail again in another year. I might just manage to have it repaired again before the 4th year of warranty. But what then? How long is it likely to remain in working order? And even if it did fail post warranty and I paid to have it repaired (I believe that this would be at least £3-400 as a minimum), why would I foot the bill for such a repair when past experience tells me the keyboards are fundamentally not fit for purpose? If I pay to have the laptop repaired after the 4 year period that repair is likely to only last for a year or so!

Given the above, I could choose to sell the laptop. But what is the resale value for a computer with known problems? I don't want to sell a lemon to someone. I also don't want to be left with a computer that is not economical to repair and is therefore, essentially, worthless.

I know from scanning consumer law that I have to approach the retailer. I thought I would ask your advice before I do so. What is it reasonable to accept? Ideally, I would like to change to the newer model that does not have this keyboard. I would be prepared to pay something towards an upgrade. But I don't want to be given a paltry part exchange value for my laptop - I would have no need or desire to part exchange except for this keyboard issue.

Any help much appreciated.

Aylesbury_Duck

Sausage11 said:

Hi All,

I bought an Apple MacBook Pro from John Lewis in September 2017 for £2,400 for work use.

Apple has admitted that the butterfly keyboards used by this and other laptops produced around this time are prone to keyboard failure. They therefore replace and repair the keyboards of affected laptops for free for up to 4 years from date of purchase.

Late 2019 the butterfly keyboard started to fail. I took the computer to an Apple retail store and they replaced the keyboard free of charge. This took around a week in total. I was without my work laptop for a week (I run my own business) which was very inconvenient. When I picked up the repaired computer I asked a member of staff what would happen if the keyboard were to fail again. I was told this was very unlikely.

Now, 10 months later, the new keyboard is already starting to fail. I spoke with Apple today. I can bring my computer in for another free repair. However, I have a number of concerns:

Even if I get the computer repaired (again), I will have to be without the laptop for work. This is inconvenient to say the least!

Given that the first keyboard failed after 2 years, then the second after 10 months, what confidence can I have that this computer will be reliable up to and beyond the 4th anniversary from purchase? One of the reasons I buy MacBook Pros is that they tend to be very reliable and last a long time. We also have a perfectly functional 2013 model as well as a 2020 model. (The 2020 model was only purchased as Apple had discontinued the butterfly keyboard for this model!)

Even if I have the computer repaired tomorrow, it may fail again in another year. I might just manage to have it repaired again before the 4th year of warranty. But what then? How long is it likely to remain in working order? And even if it did fail post warranty and I paid to have it repaired (I believe that this would be at least £3-400 as a minimum), why would I foot the bill for such a repair when past experience tells me the keyboards are fundamentally not fit for purpose? If I pay to have the laptop repaired after the 4 year period that repair is likely to only last for a year or so!

Given the above, I could choose to sell the laptop. But what is the resale value for a computer with known problems? I don't want to sell a lemon to someone. I also don't want to be left with a computer that is not economical to repair and is therefore, essentially, worthless.

I know from scanning consumer law that I have to approach the retailer. I thought I would ask your advice before I do so. What is it reasonable to accept? Ideally, I would like to change to the newer model that does not have this keyboard. I would be prepared to pay something towards an upgrade. But I don't want to be given a paltry part exchange value for my laptop - I would have no need or desire to part exchange except for this keyboard issue.

Any help much appreciated.

For a start, consumer laws don't apply in this instance because you bought it and use it for business.  As a consumer, you would have the right to commission an inspection and take the resulting report to John Lewis who would be obliged to choose between a repair, a replacement or a refund, but after three years the replacement or refund would be tempered to account for the use you've had to date.  What's a three year old model worth?  You'd get an idea from eBay.

That doesn't apply because you're a business purchaser, so it's back to whatever you can negotiate with Apple on their warranty scheme.  However, check that their warranty covers a business purchase (I suspect it does).  Warranties are offered as a discretionary extra so they can stick to the terms of the warranty and don't have to offer anything above it.

JJ_Egan

Consumer Law  surely this is a business to business transaction and comes under that remit as opposed to Consumer Law ??

Sausage11

I'm not sure on how things work with regards whether something falls under Consumer law. I bought the computer as an individual. I didn't buy it ex-VAT or in my company name. I then set up my current business in early 2019 and I use the laptop for work.

neilmcl

So what would you want from the retailer that Apple aren't already offering to do?

Sausage11

As I wrote in my original post:

"What is it reasonable to accept? Ideally, I would like to change to the newer model that does not have this keyboard. I would be prepared to pay something towards an upgrade. But I don't want to be given a paltry part exchange value for my laptop - I would have no need or desire to part exchange except for this keyboard issue."

neilmcl

Sausage11 said:

As I wrote in my original post:

"What is it reasonable to accept? Ideally, I would like to change to the newer model that does not have this keyboard. I would be prepared to pay something towards an upgrade. But I don't want to be given a paltry part exchange value for my laptop - I would have no need or desire to part exchange except for this keyboard issue."

After 3 years that's simply not going to happen. If you go to JL they will insist on sending it for repair, so long as you can prove the fault is down to manufacture, the only benefit would be that if it fails again then you can then reject it but I doubt much of a refund after, say, 4-5 years.