Landlord Will Not Return "Overpaid" Rent

avocia

Hi there,
I've placed "overpaid" in inverted commas as this isn't your typical situation where I moved out but forgot to cancel a standing order. In this situation I had a contract that was due to end on the 23rd of September 2020, with 3 other people. There were new tenants moving in, however these tenants had asked if they could move in on the 4th as they needed somewhere to live. The estate agent said they would give us the rent back for the days we had paid in advance for but hadn't got to live in the flat, if we agreed to move out early. My other housemates had already got new places, and I am currently in the process of purchasing a place, so this was basically a blessing for all of us! Instead of paying rent for 2 places at once, we could all get some money back that we didn't need to spend, so we jumped at the offer. All good, but then the landlord comes in.

Firstly, he refuses to give back our entire deposit, charging us for spurious work that falls into one of the 3 categories;

• Already covered by the inventory carried out when previous occupants moved out.
• Not noted as required work in the inventory carried out when we moved out.
• Work simply not done. (We have seen the house since the new tenants moved in - he did not do any of the work outlined in the deposit deductions.)

Since he has ~£800 in rent overpayments from us as well on account of asking us to move out early, he has also decided that the work required is such that this money belongs to him too, to "cover the damages." Our estate agent has informed us - as impartially as possible - that these are separate things, and he cannot hold this money. They said the last they spoke to him he was discussing his options with his solicitor, so he very clearly wants to keep this money anyway. I cannot stress enough that these are all made up charges, from big things like £350 for replacing a mattress (which was noted in the inventory as being in the same condition as every other mattress, and not requiring even so much as a clean - but yet he feels a need to replace.. just this one?), down to charging £30 to tighten a toilet seat - which had been noted as loose even before we moved in! 

My old housemates are all students, and it's that period of the year before loans have come in so they're entirely broke, jobs aren't exactly easy to find right now! Filing court charges is a long process, and I'm not sure any of them would be on board to wait so long to get money back that is unequivocally owed to us, so ideally we don't take this to a court. The deposit is a separate issue, we can contest that through our MyDeposits account, but when it comes to this rent overpayment - is there a quicker way to force his hand on this?

Thanks in advance! 

oldbikebloke

no, you have answered your own questions
- deposit: dispute with MyDeposits 
- over paid rent: letter before action followed by small claims court case. Should be a strong case  as utterly illegal to double charge rent from separate parties for an overlapping period, and his claim to withhold such moneys due to "damages" can be assessed in court if he so counter claims 

re the deposit claim however please understand that any deduction awarded against you is not for work done, it is "compensation" to the LL for damage to his property. There is no requirement at all that a repair is done in practice to anything listed as needed repair. That is the whole point of a check in inventory, for example, in your case that the toilet seat was loose and therefore cannot be claimed for again 

avocia

oldbikebloke said:

no, you have answered your own questions
- deposit: dispute with MyDeposits 
- over paid rent: letter before action followed by small claims court case. Should be a strong case  as utterly illegal to double charge rent from separate parties for an overlapping period, and his claim to withhold such moneys due to "damages" can be assessed in court if he so counter claims 

re the deposit claim however please understand that any deduction awarded against you is not for work done, it is "compensation" to the LL for damage to his property. There is no requirement at all that a repair is done in practice to anything listed as needed repair. That is the whole point of a check in inventory, for example, in your case that the toilet seat was loose and therefore cannot be claimed for again 

A letter before action is a good idea, I don't have any contact details for the landlord directly, but I will get our agent to forward an email to him. As for the deposit.. Okay that's logical, I figured as much. Our check-in inventory essentially covers everything he listed as damaged or cleaned, so we would absolutely win that. However, if new tenants are already living in this house and he has not done things that would have been time bound.. for example;

• He charged £200 for an end of tenancy clean, but no clean was done as the new tenants moved in the day after we moved out. (There was also no clean done prior to our moving in, but I reckon he charged the previous tenants for this too!)
• Steam cleaning carpets and floors
• Painting walls

How can we be charged for these things? Our check out inventory says these things were not required, and with new people living there now there would be no way to prove any damage had been done by us and not them even if new damage was discovered that wasn't on the inventory!  

steampowered

Issue a claim for the full deposit via MyDeposits.

Issue a court claim for the rent via the government's moneyclaimonline service. Perhaps a letter before action giving him a chance to pay up first else you will be issuing proceedings pursuant to which the landlord will be ordered to pay back the rent, plus court costs, plus interest at the standard rate set by the courts of 8% per year.

Hannimal

The LL will need to both provide evidence that cleaning and painting were needed and was beyond normal wear and tear, as well as evidence that the work was carried out. Otherwise he cannot charge this on you. The burden of proof lies on the landlord on this one.

What I would do in your shoes is to treat these two things as separate.
1. Your overpaid rent. Claim this and sent a letter before action asap. This is separate from deposit reductions
2. Dispute any deductions with the deposit protection scheme. From what you have said here your LL does not have a leg to stand on. Certainly can't be charging tenants for a new mattress. 

EDIT: See below, some of this advise is not correct

greatcrested

1) Dispute deposit deductions via the peposit scheme.

2) Letter Before Action for the overpaid rent. Send this LETTER (that's why it's called a 'LBA'!) to the address provided by law for the landlord "for serving Notices". Usually on the tenancy agreement. This may be c/o someone else eg an agent, so address it to the landlord at that address.

ThePants999

avocia said:

However, if new tenants are already living in this house and he has not done things that would have been time bound.. for example;

• He charged £200 for an end of tenancy clean, but no clean was done as the new tenants moved in the day after we moved out. (There was also no clean done prior to our moving in, but I reckon he charged the previous tenants for this too!)
• Steam cleaning carpets and floors
• Painting walls

How can we be charged for these things? Our check out inventory says these things were not required, and with new people living there now there would be no way to prove any damage had been done by us and not them even if new damage was discovered that wasn't on the inventory!  

You need to separate the questions of "were they needed" and "were they done". "Were they done" is irrelevant. If you left things in a deteriorated condition beyond "fair wear and tear", the landlord is entitled to charge for for rectifying their condition regardless of whether he actually does rectify it. If I put a hole in a wall, my landlord would be allowed to both charge me the cost of fixing the wall, but also to let it to the next tenant with the hole still there.

However, you're arguing that these things weren't needed - and that's critical. If there's a check-out that says something is fine, and the landlord subsequently tries to claim that said thing was not fine and try to charge you for it, he's going to struggle to prove his case. Focus entirely on that, not whether he actually took remedial work.

avocia

ThePants999 said:

avocia said:

However, if new tenants are already living in this house and he has not done things that would have been time bound.. for example;

• He charged £200 for an end of tenancy clean, but no clean was done as the new tenants moved in the day after we moved out. (There was also no clean done prior to our moving in, but I reckon he charged the previous tenants for this too!)
• Steam cleaning carpets and floors
• Painting walls

How can we be charged for these things? Our check out inventory says these things were not required, and with new people living there now there would be no way to prove any damage had been done by us and not them even if new damage was discovered that wasn't on the inventory!  

You need to separate the questions of "were they needed" and "were they done". "Were they done" is irrelevant. If you left things in a deteriorated condition beyond "fair wear and tear", the landlord is entitled to charge for for rectifying their condition regardless of whether he actually does rectify it. If I put a hole in a wall, my landlord would be allowed to both charge me the cost of fixing the wall, but also to let it to the next tenant with the hole still there.

However, you're arguing that these things weren't needed - and that's critical. If there's a check-out that says something is fine, and the landlord subsequently tries to claim that said thing was not fine and try to charge you for it, he's going to struggle to prove his case. Focus entirely on that, not whether he actually took remedial work.

Okay, makes total sense. Don't get me wrong there are one or two things I'm sure he can charge for. We had a previous housemate who put blu-tac on his walls that we didn't manage to remove, and there was also a little damage to a utility room ceiling he charged for that was not noted on the previous inventory, so we'll take the blame for those - that added up to about £100. As for steam cleaning, repainting and replacing a mattress, that adds up to over £1400 somehow, but none of those things were listed as necessary on our end of tenancy inventory. Rightly so, as we cleaned everything vigorously ourselves, even down to the oven which was stained on arrival. We've spoken to the guy on the phone in the past and he seemed very friendly, so it's quite surprising that he's u-turned on us like this as we're leaving, especially given how indefensible 90% of these charges are. I've sent a letter before action via our estate agent, I just hope he sees reason!

saajan_12

Hannimal said:

The LL will need to both provide evidence that cleaning and painting were needed -correct
 and was beyond normal wear and tear, -correct 
as well as evidence that the work was carried out. -no. The tenant has to compensate for a damage, regardless of whether the LL spends the money now to fix it, or fixed it after the next tenancy (as itll be in the next inventory) or receives less rent from the next tenant as the property is in poorer condition, or the LL gets lucky, or whatever. 
Otherwise he cannot charge this on you. The burden of proof lies on the landlord on this one. - correct, but only on the points he has to prove, ie that it was damaged beyond W&T and what the cost would be to rectify. 

Please check your advice. 

saajan_12

Op- certainly try the letter first, but if that doesn't work, the way to claim money off someone is via court in this country. For next time, the way to avoid this would have been to make the early surrender agreement conditional on getting your rent back at the same time as signing / leaving. They can hold onto the deposit until after the checkout etc, as that's protected.

Re separating the issues, they're ultimately what each of you owe in settlement of the tenancy:
You - some damages
LL - deposit + overpaid rent.
The NET of these is what would be transferred between you once you agree, you wouldn't hand a bunch of cash and get back another bunch. A court would do the same - you'd file a claim for £overpaid rent, and LL would counterclaim for £damages in excess of the deposit. The judge would decide on both claims and issue a net judgement. So while the deposit scheme will give you some of the decision / money early, for the rest the two issues will be inevitably settled together. 

Hannimal

@saajan_12 - thank you, I stand corrected! I've edited the comment to highlight.