How litigious are Eurocarparks?

elsien

Done search but I struggle with the new forum search function so my apologies. We will read the sticky, complain to the shopping centre first etc. 

Asking on behalf of 81 year old parent who parked in a shopping centre car park, saw there was a big black bag over the pay machine, no out of order/pay elsewhere sign and as she’s hardly ventured out over lockdown presumed it was free parking till things got back to normal.

I’m not sure she’d be up to a day in court so exploring the options before deciding what to do and wanted to check now likely this lot are to go down the court route if (as I suspect) we don’t get far with the shopping centre. Riverside in Evesham, if anyone’s familiar with it and it didn’t occur to her to take pictures of the non working machine. 

Thank you. 

Umkomaas

Have a read of this thread which includes a link to a spreadsheet helpfully posted by @ParkingMad indicating PPC court 'performance' during 2019. ECP have never been regarded as litigious - in fact only 2 cases last year, which may or may not be parking-related, but as times are tougher now because fewer cars are frequenting their car parks, fewer motorists are being caught out and profit margins are squeezed, more PPCs are chancing court claims. Whether ECP will follow that pattern, only time will tell .... and that 'time' won't run out for 6 years. 

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6095074/analysis-of-court-cases/p1

elsien

Thank you. 

And if it did at some point end up in court, would I be able to represent her or would she have to do that herself? She does have all her marbles (well, most of them)  but is likely to get flustered and give herself an asthma attack if it came to it. 

Umkomaas

elsien said:

Thank you. 

And if it did at some point end up in court, would I be able to represent her or would she have to do that herself? She does have all her marbles but is likely to get flustered and give herself an asthma attack if it came to it. 

You can do all the work in developing the defence and subsequent documentation for her, subject to everything being done in her name.  Don't queer the pitch by making a statement in the formative paperwork that you are 'responding on behalf of .... ' that messes things up.  Everything in her name. 

Then, should it come to a court hearing, she will have to attend/be present (if phone/video hearing). Do not agree to any hearing 'on the papers' to avoid her exposure to the court/claimant, she will almost certainly lose. 

So now she is in attendance at the hearing, you can then represent her as her 'Lay Representative' and do all the talking for her. She must however be prepared to answer any questions the Judge poses to her. You should check out the role of a LR on Google, and while you're there, read about the role of a McKenzie Friend - another supporting role in court, but probably not the one you want perform. But sometimes Judges ask questions about what form of assistance you wish to provide. 

But ..... back to the real world .... if this is a single ticket, I can't see ECP chasing 'small fry' when their back-catalogue of unpaid PCNs must include some multiple, much tastier, PCNs to pursue through the court. 

Redx

Still better to pursue plan A , landowner cancellation , or retailer cancellation

BrownTrout

Single tickets unlikely 

Coupon-mad

 

CHANNEL YOUR ANGER ABOUT THIS PATHETIC CHARGE TO CHANGE THE WAY THE PARKING INDUSTRY WORK:

CALLING ALL NEWBIES! 

 

An urgent task – deadline approaching in a week or so:

Please now make a real difference because not enough people have yet, and time is running out. 

The Government is consulting for just a few more days, about a new statutory code of practice (CoP) and framework intended to rein in the rogue parking firms. 

Does it go far enough?  Read and comment on the draft CoP proposal and the enforcement framework consultation (two separate consultation documents).

HOW TO DO THE SUBMISSIONS:

BSI PAS 232 – COMMENTING ON THE CODE OF PRACTICE AS DRAFTED :

1.    You will need to register then log in, to comment on the CoP and enter an occupation even if you are retired or a homemaker.  

 

2.    Register, log into the BSI page, and download & read the cover letter here:

https://standardsdevelopment.bsigroup.com/projects/2020-00193#/section

 

3.    Read the cover letter again and note the suggested extra questions... if you agree that, say, the 'loading/unloading and dropping off, asking for directions, and disabled people parking on double yellows as they can on street' activities listed should be exempt (not parking events, what do you think?) then please go to the Annexes at the end of the PAS Code and find the one about Exempt Vehicles and state what other activity you think should be added to the exempt list. 

 

4.    Download the PAS itself and start commenting on what you wish to say something about.  Quick links to each section appear on the left of your page. 

 

You don’t have to comment on everything, e.g. you might want to skip the definitions and focus on later sections, and certainly look at the Annex tables at the end that show things like consideration & grace periods and exemptions.

 

5.    Submit comments when you are happy with them. Don’t just ‘SAVE’ and forget!

 

THAT IS HALF THE JOB DONE!

THE MHCLG CONSULTATION IS EASIER AS IT IS JUST A LIST OF QUESTIONS. 

 

6.    You can do it first if preferred or pushed for time:

https://forms.office.com/Pages/ResponsePage.aspx?id=EGg0v32c3kOociSi7zmVqAVPfAOtwRxLhHRwQ610oElUMzhQSVo0WUQ4SERVSEZaUU9DTUhFQ1VMUy4u

If your answers exceed 4000 characters (approx. 500 words to a single question or 16000 words (approx. 2500 words) for all the questions below, you can email your answers to parking@communities.gov.uk as long as you state who you are.

THESE ARE THE QUESTIONS YOU WILL SEE, FOR RESPONSES TO THE FRAMEWORK:

Q1 Do you agree or disagree that members of APAs should be required to use a single appeals service appointed by the Secretary of State? 

Strongly agree/Somewhat agree/Neither agree nor disagree/Somewhat disagree/Strongly disagree 

Q1.1 Please explain your answer 

(free text)

Q2 Please provide any other feedback on the determination of appeals, including the funding model and features that an appeal service should offer e.g. telephone or in-person hearings, the ability to submit evidence online 

(free text)

Q3 Please provide any comments you have on the proposal to enforce the Code by combining the ATA’s existing audit procedures with additional safeguards. 

(free text)

Q4 Please outline any alternative means by which the Code could be monitored and enforced. You may wish to cite evidence from other regulatory frameworks which are relevant. 

(free text)

Q5 Please provide any feedback you have on the proposed governance arrangements for monitoring the new Code of Practice 

(free text)

Q6 Which parking charge system is most appropriate for private parking?

 a) the Three-tiered system

 b) Mirroring the Local Authority system

(free text)

 Q6.1 Please explain your answer. You may, for example, wish to make reference to other deterrent frameworks (for example, for railway tickets or traffic violations) 

(free text)

Q7 What level of discount is appropriate: 

40% as is currently offered in private parking and suggested in the three-tiered system, or 

50% as is offered in Local Authority parking? 

a) 40% 

b) 50% 

Q7.1 Please explain your answer, including whether the discount should be set at a different level 

(free text)

 Q8 How should the level of parking charges be set and how should the levels be revised in future? 

(free text)

Q9 Do you agree or disagree in principle with the idea of the Appeals Charter? 

Agree/Disagree 

Q9.1 Please explain your answer 

(free text)

Q10 Do you agree or not that the examples given in the Appeals Charter are fair and appropriate? Agree/Disagree 

Q10.1 Please explain your answer. 

You may wish, for example, to suggest additional cases to be covered in an Appeals Charter or query existing examples. 

(free text)

Q11 Do you agree or disagree that the parking industry should contribute towards the cost of the regulation? 

Agree/Disagree 

Q11.1 Please explain your answer.

(free text)

YOU CAN INSTEAD GIVE MORE CONCISE ANSWERS ONLINE, USING THE MHCLG PAGE LINK.

Don’t forget that answering these questions is the easier bit…

Looking at the BSI PAS (the draft code of practice itself) involves logging in and submitting comments again, and again and again and takes more time!

There is a discussion about PAS submissions and what the pages look like, here:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6195417/am-i-doing-something-wrong/p1